The Myth of Voter Fraud - Political Forum

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 05-13-2008, 02:52 AM

I agree with the article. This is merely an attempt by Republicans to disenfranchise Democrat voters. There doesn't appear to be any evidence or any significant evidence that there is voter fraud by illegal immigrants. Also, if states want to start requiring ID, then they should make it easy for citizens to obtain. There's no reason that citizens should have to jump through hoops to exercise their democratic rights.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/13/opinion/13tue1.html

Quote:

The Myth of Voter Fraud
Published: May 13, 2008

Missouri and at least 19 other states are considering passing laws that would force people to prove their citizenship before they can vote. These bills are not a sincere effort to prevent noncitizens from voting; that is a made-up problem. The real aim is to reduce turnout by eligible voters. Republicans seem to think that laws of this kind will help them win elections, but burdensome rules like these — and others cropping up around the country — pose a serious threat to democracy and should be stopped.

The Missouri legislature is, as Ian Urbina reported in The Times on Monday, on the verge of passing an amendment to the State Constitution that would require proof of citizenship from anyone registering to vote. In addition to the Missouri amendment, which would require voter approval, Florida, Kansas, South Carolina and other states are considering similar rules.

There is no evidence that voting by noncitizens is a significant problem. Illegal immigrants do their best to remain in the shadows, to avoid attracting government attention and risking deportation. It is hard to imagine that many would walk into a polling place, in the presence of challengers and police, and try to cast a ballot.

There is, however, ample evidence that a requirement of proof of citizenship will keep many eligible voters from voting. Many people do not have birth certificates or other acceptable proof of citizenship, and for some people, that proof is not available. One Missouri voter, Lillie Lewis, said at a news conference last week that officials in Mississippi, where she was born, told her they had no record of her birth.

Proof of citizenship is just one of an array of new barriers to voting that have been springing up across the country. Indiana adopted a tough new photo ID voting requirement, over objections from Democrats that it would prevent eligible voters from casting a ballot. The critics were right. In last week’s Indiana primary, a group of about 12 nuns in their 80s and 90s were prevented from voting because they lacked acceptable ID.

As with Missouri’s proposed amendment, the driving force behind strict voter ID requirements in general is not a genuine effort to prevent fraud, since there is virtually no evidence that in-person voter fraud is occurring. It is, rather, the Republican Party’s electoral calculations. Barriers at the polls drive down voter turnout, especially among the poor, racial minorities and students — groups that are less likely than average to have driver’s licenses, and that are more likely than average to vote Democratic.

The imposition of harsh new requirements to vote has become a partisan issue, but it should not be. These rules are an assault on democracy itself. The current conservative Supreme Court showed last month, in its ruling upholding the Indiana ID law, that it will not perform its historical role of protecting voters. That puts the burden on state legislators, governors, state courts and ordinary citizens to ensure that the right to vote is not taken away for partisan political gain.

TheHat · 05-13-2008, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois

I agree with the article. This is merely an attempt by Republicans to disenfranchise Democrat voters. There doesn't appear to be any evidence or any significant evidence that there is voter fraud by illegal immigrants. Also, if states want to start requiring ID, then they should make it easy for citizens to obtain. There's no reason that citizens should have to jump through hoops to exercise their democratic rights.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/13/opinion/13tue1.html

Well, another glorious article that backs up its claims with nothing. Just talk.

For more information on voting rights, wait....

I forgot, there is nothing in the Constiution that strictly defines who can or cannot vote. The only thing that Congress or the states shall not infringe on is people's right to vote according to their sex (male or female). The rest is left up to the states.

I am all for voter ID. If you cant prove who you are when you walk into a voting place, you shouldnt be allowed to vote period. I have to bring my drivers license with me to go and vote and I havent heard 1 single instance where someone had a problem with that.

I love how Democrats are always screaming voter fraud, yet they are the ones about to elect a candidate with superdelegates....lol. You hardly ever hear Republicans screaming voter fraud, it is usually the Democrats saying this group or that group was discriminated against at the pollling places. Whether it is Jesse Jackson in Florida, or what have you.

This was an opinion puff piece in the NY Times, that didnt prove anything. Just talk about how Republicans of course, are trying to create voter fraud?

I am still trying to figure out why people having to prove who they are when they go vote is such a bad idea. The only reasons to be against this is A) you are benefiting as a candidate or party from voter fraud or B) you dont want a clean election. Either way you arent being very ethical in your discourse. Both parties should be for people proving who they are.

To say people have no identification is bogus. Your SS number tells everythig about you. If you work or pay taxes ditto. IF you have ever gotten a ticket. If you subscribe to a magazine. There are countless ways to prove who you are. For this writer to say otherwise is a joke.

Izzibeth · 05-13-2008, 09:59 AM

There is no reason to have to have a voter ID. There were 4 reported cases of attempted voter fraud in 2006 but something like 200,000 people who ended up having problems and not getting their vote counted properly.

Illegals and people who are not eligible to vote are not going to try to vote. Voting requires you to make yourself known (something the majority of illegal immigrants do NOT want to do). Putting more things in place would just deter eligible voters. You do not legally have to have ID on you when you go to vote and I think it should stay that way. Adding jumps and hoops to the process will only guarantee that the percentage of voters will decline.

TheHat · 05-13-2008, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izzibeth

There is no reason to have to have a voter ID. There were 4 reported cases of attempted voter fraud in 2006 but something like 200,000 people who ended up having problems and not getting their vote counted properly.

Illegals and people who are not eligible to vote are not going to try to vote. Voting requires you to make yourself known (something the majority of illegal immigrants do NOT want to do). Putting more things in place would just deter eligible voters. You do not legally have to have ID on you when you go to vote and I think it should stay that way. Adding jumps and hoops to the process will only guarantee that the percentage of voters will decline.

Yeah it will decline b/c those people who have been voting illegally will stop doing so.....lol.

Illegals do vote, just like they do steal SS numbers to work.

I thought you dont have to prove who you are to vote, so why wouldnt an illegal vote? You just contradicted yourself.

Izzibeth · 05-13-2008, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHat

Yeah it will decline b/c those people who have been voting illegally will stop doing so.....lol.

Illegals do vote, just like they do steal SS numbers to work.

I thought you dont have to prove who you are to vote, so why wouldnt an illegal vote? You just contradicted yourself.

The majority of illegals do NOT vote. When people go to vote there are poll workers there and those people pay attention to who comes. Also, the majority of the time they ask for identification (though they can not stop you from voting if you do not have it). They also check your name with your address and all that other crap. ALSO there are people from the parties who are taking notes on who votes so they can report back to their respective parties on who voted and when. You do not HAVE to prove who you are but there are plenty of people at any polling place at any given time who have an interest in who you are. Illegal immigrants are not stupid. By going to a poll you risk calling a lot of attention to yourself and risk deportation. So.. no... the number of voters will decline because they will make it a pain in the ass to go put all this crap together just so you can go down to the voting booth.

There is no problem with voter identification theft. Instead of worrying about the 4 cases that took place 2 years ago let's focus on making sure that people are able to vote if they want to and making sure that those votes will be handled correctly and counted.

NoCountry · 05-13-2008, 06:47 PM

One question I have is why is it always Republican's that are trying to make it harder to vote?

What are they afraid of?

I don't really expect an answer. It's one of them Rhetorical questions.

bododie · 05-13-2008, 07:36 PM

Why worry about the illegals voting? It's all the damn dead people voting that scares me! lol

mrnumbersman · 05-13-2008, 07:57 PM

What is the problem with requiring some form of government issued ID to vote? That is what I never have understood from the democrats. The talk of disenfranchisement because "poor" people can't/won't get government ID. Even in states where need can be shown and the government will provide an ID, free of charge, this still is not good enough. Citizens are simply asking that if you are going to vote then show proof of who you are. How is that too much to ask?

Grokmaster · 05-13-2008, 10:56 PM

Funny how the same people who have been screaming "voter fraud" at everyone else,while getting caught registering dead people,(1960,2004,etc.), suddenly "finding" boxes of ballots AFTER THE POLLS HAVE CLOSED (Washington state,2004),being CONVICTED of voter fraud (E.St.Louis Democrats,2004),have suddenly declared that "voter fraud is a myth".
They doth protest too much. It doesn't take Da Vinci to figure out that the USSC's upholding of the perfectly reasonable right of states to determine who is voting in its elections,is going to make it far harder to vote on those who SHOULD NOT BE VOTING,than anyone else.
The Democrats and idiotic ACLU failed to produce a single,legal voter, OF ANY COLOR,who would be prevented from voting because of Indiana's law.
They could only decry that it MIGHT INCONVENIENCE some people.
There is no right to "not be inconvenienced" for anyone,once again,regardless of race. The law is the same for EVERYONE,regardless of race. The only "argument" the silly article attempts is completely unsubstantiated ,theoretical speculation. As I previously pointed out,they cannot produce a SINGLE LEGAL VOTER,OF ANY COLOR,who would be prevented from voting due to this law,and principle.
So,please,give us all a break and stop the cheap attempts to racialize a COLOR BLIND LAW.

GlobalSmiles · 05-14-2008, 01:36 PM

Got to say I'm on the road of the idea that says "you need ID to drink, you need ID to vote".

The fewer people that vote the better has always been argued about. Republicans benefit from apathy in a great way and I'm sure anything that could add to that apathy would probably be appealing to them as a party.