mrnumbersman

I throw this out to you folks here. It is something that we occassionally banter about in other threads and we all accept the failure of the education system to be the source of a myriad of problems.

What do you think? Is the American Education System a profound success story with room for improvement or an abysmal failure with no hope of ever getting repaired?

Pawn

there's alot of things in american secioty that has failed, and yes the american educational system is 1 of them. just look at the crime rates, kids who have a good education tend to not do crime.

and tho a failure the system can be repared with way more funds and other stuff.

nerv14

i would be suprised to find anyone on this forum who thinks that the american educational system isn't a failure

Caltex

In many counties it is a great success. Our education system is done mostly at the State and Local level, thus you will have discrepancy in quality. Areas that have active parents who stress education will be much better.

I went to public school my entire life, and the education I received was excellent. 90% of my graduating High School class went on to college, and had a 99% graduation rate.

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iTaliAN_ICe

America's public school systems vary in quality, and that's our educational system's chief failure. If we dedicated more time, money, and effort to improving our nation's crappier school systems, particularly those in impoverished urban areas, we'd be doing fine. Ignoring the problem or giving up on the public school system by expanding our use of private schooling (below the college level, at least) will not help anything.

I would not go so far as calling the entire system a failure, though.

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"As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen… it is declared… The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation."

-Treaty of Tripoli, 1794.

Oimachine

The American School System is a monetary black hole.

every year more and more money is thrown away to "improve" things. the only problem is, there are no standards.

you could pay teachers $1million a year, but if you're not making sure theyre doing their jobs, what is the gain?

Tenure is a horrible thing and should be abolished.

Personally, i wouldnt mind seeing education privatized, with some sort of standardized curriculum minimum, reinforced by basic standardized testing to ensure children are actually learning something.



One of the biggest problems i have seen, is the fact that you might have a GOOD teacher one year, but the next year, you have students in the class who didnt benefit from that teacher. for example; when i was in the 4th grade, i learned ALOT from a VERY good teacher. the whole class learned quickly and apparently, more than we should have. When I got to the 5th grade, i changed schools, and found out that i didnt need to pay attention at all. why? because until about March of my 5th grade school year, the teacher was teaching our class things i had done the year before. technically i could have skipped a grade, but i nor my parents wanted me in a different age group (bad choice, but hind sight is 20/20).

I hope noone tears apart the sloppy grammar and punctuation in this thread as "proof" that public education sucks. if the rest of these guys are like me, we just got off of a 9 hour work shift, late at night, and dont really give a damn about being perfect. lol.

Caltex

The only way schools can fix themselves is if the parents and students decide they want to learn, and facilitate an environment conducive to learning. No amount of money or federal regulations can fix that.

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oldguitarist

Nail on the head my friend. If you look back to your high school classmates you will see that one the whole the ones that received good educations were the ones that came from stable families who supported, not hindered, there educational endeavors. You are only at school for roughly 7 hours a day, what about the other 17? I believe that it is these after hours that will greatly influence the education of a child. Stable families who promote education in the household is what is necessary. And when I say stable, I do not necessarily mean traditional nuclear families. Just good people who work hard and want the best for their kids.

ukrainska mavpa

I don't know that I'm the first teacher to put my two cents in here, but let me at least be the next...

Privatizing secondary education in this country would be a fiasco. Schools in wealthier parts of the district would continue to benefit while those in poorer areas would suffer even more.

We already have a 'standardized minimum curriculum'. The Dept of Education and State governments decide the minimum standards and then its up to school district and school boards to make specific choices like which textbooks to use. In Texas we get Texas history in 7th or 8th grade whereas in California they get California history at the same age, but we all studied US history, right?

And as far as standardized testing goes... holy shit, don't get me started. We've had tests in place for decades and with every new administration in the White House we get more. This is contributing to the problem, not making things better. Here's how, teachers are no longer able to focus on any sort of course curriculum, now because their school's funding depends on how well their students perform on these standardized tests, they spend a large chunk of their time, as we say, teaching for the test. Why is that a problem? In stead of learning about history, you learn how to take a history test. No more no less. Test are good for one thing and one thing only, to see how well you know how to take a test.

Now, the original post mentioned the American education system. I have to assume that you were only referring to K - 12 schools, right?

Hopefully, you're not including colleges and universities in this.

Having taught secondary school here in the US and abroad I will say that we have a shit load of problems but regardless of what the media pundits might like to say, in my opinion, the US K through 12 public education system, for all its faults, stacks up pretty well against the rest of the world. Yeah, we've got a long way to go, and the rest of the world is nipping at our heals in too many areas, but given all the bullshit teachers, parents and students have to deal with in this country (as regards education I mean) we could do a lot worse.

Oimachine

heh, trust me, there is no national curriculum, but its really only military kids that notice it, because we move more than anyone else. it IS all decided by the states. which doesnt work for a federal program.

i side with private schooling because usually standards are higher when its in the best interest of a business. and anyone who has been to college knows that school is a business. its hard to promote a school with a low graduation rate, and shoddy education. would people get left behind? yep, but thats life. my younger sister did horribly on tests, got mediocre grades, and had to study twice as much as i did. and yet, we had alot of the same teachers and i could argue, the exact same education. why should i have been stuck in the same schools just because of where i lived. i was obviously more intelligent, and could have prospered alot more than i did if i was offered a more advanced place to get my education. my parents werent rich so private school wasnt an option. a private RUN instead of OWNED school could have been though. a private run school competing for federal money would have been reviewing lesser schools students results, and would have approached me to join, since my obvious edge would have guaranteed them something they could advertise and use for more federal funding.