Damn, another shooting in the US - Page 4 - Political Forum

presluc · 12-29-2007, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodog

No because I'm not trying to paint anyone as a victim.

Meaning what? They were mentally unstable. I will explain this to you again in plain english. I did not bring up the issue of mental illness to paint them as victims, I said it because someone stated that their actions were due to the decay of society. Whether or not some people see killers who happen to suffer from mental illness as victims is inconsequential to my statement.

What the hell are you rambling about this time? Once again you are way off track. The mentally disturbed peopled that this thread is about are ALL DEAD. None of them are alive to get of. I'm not aware of any case where a mentally disturbed serial killer has gotten off with no retaliation. That would suggest that they were never sentenced to jail or a mental institution.

Rambling, it is you who said my compaison is irrelevent.
But it is because of the peer presure that are put on young teenagers today.
because of the want\need to be accepted.
That's one relevent.
The other is something you may have overlooked.
Do you have any idea how many unsolved murders there are each day in any big city?
Do you have any idea how many of these remain unsolved?
You take some innocent people being killed and you add a killer mix with papperazi and what you got?
This is going to go unoticed by the "loners and weird" kids trying to fit in???

presluc · 12-31-2007, 01:51 PM

As you said in your earleir post you don't paint anyone as a victims, but there are victums.
How can you not paint someone a victim when one minute they are an innocent shopper going to the mall the next they are shot dead?
When one minute s omebody goes to college to teach or to better theirselve is shot and killed?
And if innocent people are killed and the killer is caught what then well it's ok you'll still be alive, and maybe your lawyer can get you out of prison someday?
And what of the innocent victims?????
Not even justice for them???

presluc · 12-31-2007, 03:43 PM

Sorry for the misunderstanding,
However what of the killers that do get caught?
Are they to be evaluated on T.V. while their victims have a quite burial?
Do we as a soceity to get to know of the "uncontrolled" reason for the death of a victim over T.V. NEWS, while the victims family cries alone???

presluc · 01-01-2008, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodog

You are free to criticize how the media portrays murderers however you wish. That isn't what I was talking about. My point is that psychologists have stated that the reason for the murders mentioned in this thread are largely do to psychological instability not social decay as someone else stated. It works to our benefit to know the cause, not hide it because we think the murderers might seem more sympathetic. Knowing what really causes an act can help us prevent them from happening again and creating new victims.

So, isn't it just a possibleity, that social decay leads to psychological instability.
To know the cause you must have some possibilties to admit to ore dismiss do you not?
You can not make such an assumtion based on what you have learned, but what you do learn.
You have dismissed one possible reason {social decay} before a proper investigation.
These crimes can not be accepted because of mental illness, hard times, or stress.
Prevention not paparazzi, prevention not more reasons after more reasons before.

LessGovMrPrez · 01-02-2008, 11:22 AM

According to the so-called "experts" everyone is insane...lol. Didnt you get the memo on that one?...lol.

We need to do away with the insane guilty plea and just lock them away regardless or shoot them on site.

Dont blame games and TV on this. Find the parents and see if the parents are doing anything constructive with their kids. Like actually making them get out from in front of the TV and Nintendo. Make them go get a damn job or something. Give them some religion or spirituality. Something that occupies their time b/c that is what is happening here. We have a bunch of lazy ass, bored kids who dont develop the proper bonds in life that end up starved for attention b/c mommy and daddy sent them off to daycare at 3 months. They have nothing stable in life so they are all messed up. Then someone calls them a name one day and they turn into Freddy "freakin" Kruger thinking "I will go hack some folks up", then I will get some attention. Then they realize "Wow I just killed people" and shoot themselves b/c they cant deal with the reality they just created, so we just label them insane and pass up the root cause of the problem.

presluc · 01-02-2008, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodog

Depends on your defiinition of social decay. What kind of changes in society could be happening now that wasn't happening 30 years ago that would result in psychological instability?

I don't think people are any crazier now then they were before. People have always killed for unknown reasons, I think that just recently here in teh US other sociopaths are simply taking from the Columbine murders.

?

If someone can direct me to some evidence or at least come up with a plausible theory of their own as to how "social decay" is playing any roll in these murders I'd be glad to listen.

The experts would disagree.

Do you suggests that the media not report these stories or even censor the media?

1 More outsoursing
2Maybe not more crazier just more of them.
3 Social; decay playing a roll, two words postal worker, not good enough unemployed.
4 How did they become experts reading books.
A soldier could read books till hell froze over he still has to be able to actually fire a weapon ,and even then combat tried to be capabal of knowing what WAR is, Is not this the same thing the battlefeild may be differant but the rational mind and the criminal mind is a WAR soceity fights to win everyday.
I suggest the media report both sides but the media like it or not must know a criminal act is a criminal act.
If a murderer kills an innocent person the media for the most part ridiculls him.
If an unstable person kills an innocent they say he had hard times ,a bad childhood, he lost his job, his wife left ect ect.
Bottom line in both cases innocent people are dead.

FreedomSeeker · 01-02-2008, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjoe3x

How do we know these cowards were insane?
Were they not sane enough to get a weapon and know how to use one?
And a majority of the time do these cowards kill only innocent victims.
Most of the time it's a school or mall, or college, or a workplace.
If these people are so "insane" how come you never find them on the bad side of town?
How come they don't go on gang turf and start shooting?
Suicide bombers aren't insane and I say neither is this trash that kills innocent victims.

1. Not all of them are considered insane but some of them are.
2. You don't have to be sane to get a weapon or use one, and it isn't that difficult to operate a gun either. Unfortunately people who have them don't know how to use it properly and legally i.e. not shooting people or themselves or even sadder they don't care.
3. Yes, most of the time they do but in some of the school cases they think some of the kids shooting were shooting kids who traumatized and bullied them. That doesn't make it right in any way, but I wouldn't consider all the victims completely innocent even though they didn't deserve to die.
4. It isn't that type of insane I don't think, it’s more of a chemical unbalance. What do you mean the bad side of town? They may not live in the 'bad' side of town btw. Also people who are gang members or who live in bad areas and\or do bad things are not necessarily insane.
5. They might be insane but they aren't always dumb!
6. Some of the suicide bombers may be insane, I don't know if its been looked into but that is called being a fanatic and needing to see a physiatrist seriously.

presluc · 01-03-2008, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodog

Are you talking about like free trade? That's an economic thing not social.

Doubtful. Poverty is something known to cause mental illness, but the US has a lower population of poor people then it did in the past. I can't think of anything else that would make people crazier.

What?

They went to school for some odd six years and had an internship too.

You didn't answer my question.

Maybe free trade is economic, are you trying to tell me that economic issues do not effect social values??
In answer to your question how can America be sure that we have a lower population of poor people than it did in the past.? I would not be afraid the guess there's more than one person living in the America undocumented.
As far as the last 30 yrs run the numbers of innocent killing that happened in the 50's till now, or the 60's or the 70's or the 80's 90's and then 2000.
You will see more of these kind of threads "DAMN ANOTHER SHOOTING.TODAY A MAN WITH A GUN, COLUMBINE,ARKANSAS, VIRGINIA TECH,MALLS,WORKPLACES IN THE 2000'S YOU WILL SEE A RISE IN THESE KIND OF SENCELESS KILLINGS .
Now,something caused this, which brings us right back to social problems which leads to social decay.

presluc · 01-04-2008, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodog

Are you trying to tell me that outsourcing makes people crazy?

That's what the Census Bureau is for.

The mass murderers weren't undocumented so...

That's true, but it's hard to say whether it's social decay when in other developed countries (except Canada) nobody has guns except maybe the police. If they had easy access to guns they might have the same problems for all we know.

Then prove it. Remember Europeans watch the same crap we do so entertainment isn't the problem.

Outsourceing leads to less jobs for blue coillar workers you see any rich people killing people and then themselves?
This is America not Europe,I don't know how you feel about taking care of your own house before you start taking care of others, but I think it might be a good Idea.

Census bureau??? Unless you can tell me the exact amount of illeagle immigrants that are currently living in America ??WELL?
Are we to base or consruct our social structure on what Europeans watch?

rob_anderson · 01-04-2008, 08:13 PM

Quote:

That's not what I meant. I just wanted to assure you that the entertainment industry is not the issue.

Ok, lets try an experiment then. No bad stuff in entertainment for five years (no violence, foul language, crude vulgarization of sexuality, etc). If society doesn't get better we can go back to the trash we have now. Deal?