Locke9-05

And what's the difference between medical marijuana and recreational marijuana, when they're used according to those defining key terms? Hmm, let's see--one has a beneficial purpose that is productive to society and the other is a complete waste that the selfish individual indulges in mindlessly without care of who or what is affected because of their actions. That's the difference. I have no problem with medical marijuana if it's regulated and ensured that that exception wouldn't be exploited. Unfortunately, in the areas of California where it's legal, it is exploited and abused.

__________________
"Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."
-John F. Kennedy

"Education begins the gentleman, but reading, good company and reflection must finish him."
-John Locke

"What worries you, masters you."
-John Locke
___________________

The Lying Dutchman

it was intended as a reply to Nash who claimed medical marihuana is a myth.

you also acknowledged that paradoxes can exist in a society, and it apears your society aproves of the use of alcohol and sigarettes. marihuana is not such a giant leap perhaps..

Locke9-05

Do I have to do this again? Do I have to show you yet again how you've used this incorrectly? The slippery slope argument suggests inevitability. I have not suggested inevitability I have emphasized the risk of something. Hmmm... risk... inevitability... same thing? Not at all. Yet you would make the same mistake again--jumping to conclusions throwing out this "slippery slope" crap for what reason? God only knows. Here, for reference, it's your own link--the one you used a number of pages back--the first time you mistakenly used this "argument" (if you can call it that).

Slippery slope - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The only really noticeable double standard here is alcohol. Alcohol should be barred, yes, I agree--that double standard is not right. We should amend that problem and get rid of another useless drug that is individualistic, contributes nothing to society collectively, and is potentially hazardous, unpleasant, and unhealthy to those around the individuals under the influence of it. I agree, but you'll have to take that up with the government, not me. And this thread is about whether or not pot should be legalized, not which drugs other than pot are legal and not and why should we give a damn? If that were the case, then you might even have a compelling argument. No, actually it still wouldn't be very convincing or compelling, because like I said, there's not a lot any of us can do to fix that double standard. We can talk about how it should be fixed, but that's the extent of it.
Your theory against prescription drugs is simply absurd. What makes prescription drugs different than alcohol, tobacco, and marijuana? What makes them different from "recreational" drugs like alcohol, tobacco, and recreational marijuana? Hmm, could it be that they're designed for medical purposes? They have an actual beneficial and healthy purpose to society? Prescription drugs have side-effects, yes--potentially dangerous side effects--and that's why they are issued by prescription only... Licensed medical professionals diagnose ailments and prescribe medications to those who are in need of such drug treatment.
Your personal "experience" with marijuana is completely irrelevant to this debate. This is, after all, a debate--you represent one side, I represent the other. We're debating through the world wide web, and you using your "experience" as an argument is utterly absurd because first of all there's no way to verify it, secondly, you're biased in favor of one side, and lastly, it's never used in genuine debate as an actual argument. Hell, I can play the "experience" game too. My brother was a marijuana user. I remember how he would smoke a joint and be a totally different person. Sometimes he'd be laughing and giddy. But other times, he'd see things that I didn't see. Sometimes he'd act scared and other times overly angry. He was violent and volatile when he was on that shit. So while I haven't used marijuana, I know what it does to people--enough to know that it's unstable and potentially hazardous (to more people than just the user).
Why haven't people turned to anarchy? That's a lame question. Because they need the government. Because without the government, your rights mean jack. Without the government, it doesn't matter what "decisions" you make for yourself, someone bigger and stronger than you will make the decision that you don't deserve your possessions and hell--maybe you don't deserve to live either. That's anarchy. I use anarchy as a describing term--usually I use the term "anarchical," which is an adjective. I place emphasis on the necessary balance between government and the people.

And no, the people don't know what's best for them, the framers of our Constitution knew that much and so did John Locke. If the people are in total control of themselves, there's nothing to stop them from killing each other. People make selfish decisions, and selfish decisions hurt other people by default. If I want more land and I take more land, who suffers? Someone else who now has less land. If I want food and resources and I take food and resources, who suffers? Someone else who now has less food and resources. When the people make their own decisions, the "survive and thrive" mindset tears lives apart. Not only will people take what's necessary to survive, they'll take what they want as well--hurting and destroying the lives of others. That's why government is necessary and that's why undermining it achieves nothing.

__________________
"Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."
-John F. Kennedy

"Education begins the gentleman, but reading, good company and reflection must finish him."
-John Locke

"What worries you, masters you."
-John Locke
___________________

Locke9-05

Not a paradox, but a double standard. And the easier thing to do--and more logical, would simply be to eliminate all three. They're all individualistic wastes that contribute nothing to the collective, and they're each unhealthy, unpleasant, and potentially hazardous not only to the user, but to non-users around the user as well. They infringe upon the rights of those non-users. So by this nation's standards, all three are worthless and harmful to society and should be kaput.


EDIT: Pardon, you're right, I did say paradox, just wanted to acknowledge that while showing my mistake at the same time

__________________
"Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."
-John F. Kennedy

"Education begins the gentleman, but reading, good company and reflection must finish him."
-John Locke

"What worries you, masters you."
-John Locke
___________________

presluc

Kidding right?
Taxpayers are already paying for increased cost of health insurance and what do we get back ?
You think the drug cartels in Columbia and other countries kick in anything?
These pointless waste maybe unhealthy, unpleasent, and have poteinially
harmful effects, but show me a large America city where pot isn't sold?
As for alcohol and ciggerettts being a waste check on how much taxes come out of those some time. Not all people that smoke are lined up to get free health care neither are all people that drink.
Infringing on whose rights?
What about the single people that don't have nor want children that are paying school tax., What about paying taxes on a home but you know that eminit domain can take it from you any time,what about the 6 million dollars in tax money that just came up missing in Iraq cause somehow it just got lost, and the list goes on.
As far as alowing substances like that in American soceity, What about obeisity,one of the most deadly killers of Americans?

Locke9-05

What does that have to do with the fact that it is harmful? The more people doing pot and other wasteful idiotic illegal drugs, the more people breathing in the crap from that junk if it's made legal, the more people affected in negative and harmful ways from such drugs, the higher insurance costs are going to be for all taxpayers and that is an infringement upon the rights of those who don't do any of that crap. We don't want to be around that crap, we don't want to be around the harmful effects of it, and we don't want to have to pay for hiked up insurance costs that result from the health issues and other insurance problems that will most certainly arise--as they've shown to in the past. Cigarette smokers have higher insurance rates than non-smokers. Alcohol abusers have higher insurance rates than non-drinkers, and marijuana users are no different.
I'm not talking just about free health care. I'm talking about health insurance premiums as well. You wouldn't believe the ridiculous costs that companies heap on the rest of taxpaying society because of the idiotic behaviors of some law-breaking individuals with very unhealthy lifestyles. Those of us who don't do pot, those of us who don't do illegal drugs don't want to have to pay for those kinds of expenses. They would all even out in the end if it was legalized and the government knows that it wouldn't be worth it.
I just said. Those who don't use marijuana. Those who use marijuana are illegally infringing upon the rights of those around them who do not use it, putting them in a generally unpleasant, unhealthy and potentially hazardous environment.
Yes, the list goes on, but that list right there has nothing to do with this topic. Health insurance premiums that skyrocket because of the unhealthy lifestyles of selfish individuals--that are then dumped on the taxpayers, are not logical, and they are not worth the trouble of legalizing such a pointless, worthless recreational drug--is what I was talking about.

__________________
"Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."
-John F. Kennedy

"Education begins the gentleman, but reading, good company and reflection must finish him."
-John Locke

"What worries you, masters you."
-John Locke
___________________

Nash

listen i never said that weed did not serve a medical purpose it most likly does so does cocaine(codien) and morphine but the 98% of people who want to legalize it want only to abuse it. When you smoke weed and there is clearly nothing wrong with you you are an abuser alcohol can be good as well but how many use it for medical purpose, they abuse it
well i was talking about lowminded people who abuse weed just to get some high feeling BOOKS can do the same thing!! But they subject themselves to the low level of becoming an abuser killing of the brain more and more when reading and learning new things enhances the brain. And for intellegent people its a shame that their intellegence has reached a level that they start to degress and become an abuser, there must not be enough for them to study or maybe their bored in any event they are subsituting their intellect to act like a low minded creature. And your last statement well i believe you put yourself into that catogory i never called you low minded i had said also intellegent people as well you classified yourself. SAY NO TO ABUSE!!


I agree wholheartly!! you are most definitly correct!!


uhhhh 1. america is always in debt and will alwaysbe in debt the federal reserve makes sure of that they print money and lend key word lend out and every dollar has debt attached to it. Weed selling is not going to help pay debt off, ask yourself why the pharmicies are not paying off this debt all the new drugs comming out and the debt is still there and you think that WEED wrapped in a superman costume is going to magicly bring america out of debt, who ever told you that tell them to get off of cloud 9!!

2.the same can be said of guns



never did i say it is a myth

then when it becomes legal watch the surgeon generals warning weed alchol and cigaretts is bad.

The Lying Dutchman

well i never smoked books before so i'll give it a try soon any good titles?

the things people do in everyday life is not merely logical, and there are plenty of governments that know this and allow alcohol, its no disaster

Locke9-05

You're going to "smoke books?" Intriguing... Well, knock yourself out.

As for the things people do in everyday life that are illogical, sure, they do illogical things, and the things they do that are non-contributory to society and also detrimental to the collective well-being are frowned upon. Alcohol is allowed, yes. It shouldn't be, though. That's as far as that can be taken in this debate. What's the title of this debate? "Should pot be legal? Yes or no." Not "Should pot be legal? Yes or no--and what the hell is up with alcohol and all those other drugs?" This topic is about marijuana. Alcohol is a fairly simple issue to deal with. It's legal, but it really shouldn't be. That's not something that can be changed as of immediately, so the most that can be done is complain about it. Marijuana is illegal and should most definitely stay that way. That's the gist of this debate.

__________________
"Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."
-John F. Kennedy

"Education begins the gentleman, but reading, good company and reflection must finish him."
-John Locke

"What worries you, masters you."
-John Locke
___________________

The Lying Dutchman

i winked..

the topic is on marihuana, but the logical comparison is offcourse made with legal non-constructive goods because it exposes a double standard of society.