How to beat an opium economy - Page 2 - Political Forum

CHUQ · 12-14-2006, 06:48 AM

Since they cannot find a way to do it in a civilized way, they will resort to chemical warfare. I mean what is a few Afghan farmers compared to the overall subject of opium cntrol?

Slartibartfas · 12-14-2006, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHUQ

Since they cannot find a way to do it in a civilized way, they will resort to chemical warfare. I mean what is a few Afghan farmers compared to the overall subject of opium cntrol?

You do not understand. We are not talking about some Afghan farmers.
We are talking about potentially ruining the whole agriculture and the whole ecological system of an entire country.

Thats a crime. A large crime. Opium comes and might also go again, but a ruined nature is ruined and will take eons to recover. I hope you know why Agent Orange is not allowed anymore, do you?

If the US should ever resort to this act of barbarism, it will ultimatively ruin the rest of reputation it has.

CHUQ · 12-14-2006, 07:45 AM

OH I do understand! It was my lame attmpt at sarcasm. Sorry. I understand completely that if I were a farmer and could make $100 a month raising turnips or $1000 a month raising poppies--poppies would be my crop of choice.

Public_Enemy · 12-14-2006, 08:15 AM

Maybe you can finish off Opium this or that way but it wouldn't stop narco-economy , they would just move to syntetic... and syntetic would definitly shortened the lives of addicts...

CHUQ · 12-14-2006, 09:16 AM

Good point, where there is a profit, there will be a way!

Slartibartfas · 12-14-2006, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHUQ

OH I do understand! It was my lame attmpt at sarcasm. Sorry. I understand completely that if I were a farmer and could make $100 a month raising turnips or $1000 a month raising poppies--poppies would be my crop of choice.

Oh, well it seems I do not get all the jokes lately

The choice Afghans have to make is simply, either to live in terrible poverty or have a work that one could describe as payed in a fair way. Its not that the farmers get rich with it, but they dont have to worry about what to do next day to survive anymore. And if you look at the region, its not too bad for it, money floats into it. The whole economy system on the country side is basing on the opium production.

And thats where the problem lies. The government forces the people to stop growing poppy. (Because the western powers tell it it has to) But they dont show the people any alternative. So in essence the people, that they are not allowed to live a life where their work is appreciated in financial terms. They tell them, they have to live in most severe poverty.

Give the people an alternative and you might solve the opium problem. If you do not create an alternative and forbid them to earn money, than at best you found the basis for civil resistance, at worst for the break down of law and civil war.

Mal · 12-14-2006, 03:36 PM

There is only one way of really fighting drug crime. LEGALIZATION of drugs. It's the same mechanism that produced organized crime during the prohibition time in the US. There is a demand for drugs, so someone will deliver to make money. When drugs are illegal, the drug producers and dealers can make even more money and use it to finance terrorism or other illegal activities. I'm for a total legalization of all major drugs. The drug business should be controlled by the authorities to reduce the possible negative side effects an easier supply of drugs (protection of minors for example). A legal and controlled drug trade can even produce new (legal) jobs and help countries like Afghanistan, cause the business then could be run by the state or legal companies ... not by gangster, war lords and terrorists.

Slartibartfas · 12-14-2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mal

There is only one way of really fighting drug crime. LEGALIZATION of drugs. It's the same mechanism that produced organized crime during the prohibition time in the US. There is a demand for drugs, so someone will deliver to make money. When drugs are illegal, the drug producers and dealers can make even more money and use it to finance terrorism or other illegal activities. I'm for a total legalization of all major drugs. The drug business should be controlled by the authorities to reduce the possible negative side effects an easier supply of drugs (protection of minors for example). A legal and controlled drug trade can even produce new (legal) jobs and help countries like Afghanistan, cause the business then could be run by the state or legal companies ... not by gangster, war lords and terrorists.

I do not support legalization of all drugs. Legalize the soft drugs.

But the deadly disastrous drugs should not be allowed. I don't see a benefit in legalizing Heroin etc. We already today help addicteds as good as it gets with fresh needles and if they decide for getting clean even for the drugs as long as until the cold turkey does not kill him anymore.

The hard stuff drugs are not that huge business as it would be worth legalizing it. It would be trading death, thats not acceptable.

Btw, the largest revenue bringer for the organized crime when it comes to drugs is cigarettes smuggling anyway. Smoking is legal btw

Mal · 12-14-2006, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

I do not support legalization of all drugs. Legalize the soft drugs.

But the deadly disastrous drugs should not be allowed. I don't see a benefit in legalizing Heroin etc. We already today help addicteds as good as it gets with fresh needles and if they decide for getting clean even for the drugs as long as until the cold turkey does not kill him anymore.

The hard stuff drugs are not that huge business as it would be worth legalizing it. It would be trading death, thats not acceptable.

Btw, the largest revenue bringer for the organized crime when it comes to drugs is cigarettes smuggling anyway. Smoking is legal btw

Smuggling cigarettes is nothing but tax evasion. High taxes on cigarettes in a way also have a prohibitive effect, and that is causing the crime. The criminalization of cannabis (while booze is perfectly legal) is almost ridiculous. I agree that legalizing hard drugs is somewhat problematic. But it basically is the same story. If people want to fuck up their life, they will find a way ... legal or not. But even a controlled legalization of hard drugs would be beneficial in many ways. With controlled I mean that it would have to be prescribed by doctors for example. It would reduce crime drastically on the supply and on the demand side and would help many drug addicts to return to a halfway "normal" life. Dealers and smugglers would simply be put out of business, because they can't make much money any more. Syndicates in the producing countries would also lose power when there is a legal market.[/quote]

Mal · 12-14-2006, 05:19 PM

Economically speaking, the price elasticity of hard drugs is very very low. Demand reacts very inelastically to price changes. Normal people will usually not start to use heroin just because it's getting cheaper to buy. Heroin addicts need their drugs anyway. It doesn't matter if the stuff is expensive or cheap, they will consume. In the end, they will pay almost any price. And if they can't finance their consumption, they will try to get the money they need through prostitution or crime. Such crime is obviously very harmful for our society. Tougher laws will not stop them either, it will only worsen the problem because the price for drugs will probably rise even more. Because of this inelasticity, it's also the hard drugs that should be legalized. It would make the drugs much more cheaper. There would be much less money in the illegal drug market. A lot of crime and other problems could be avoided on the demand side, while drug use would probably only rise insignificantly if the right measures are taken.