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Old 10-25-2007, 02:57 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Sure, I understand we all say things we regret--or at least when thinking back, we would not have said them. It's okay, no need to worry about it, I just wanted to make sure that we were both aware that we've probably been equally at fault for that sort of thing throughout the debate. No hard feelings.
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Old 10-25-2007, 03:20 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Can you show us a single person that has "benefited society" because of their use of marijuana? Any one, who if they we're high, whouldn't have helped the world in the way that they did.
I was just thinking about this before you posted about it. Of course, there is no way to answer this question without opinion at least when concerning use by famous people who have passed away, but there are ways of finding out if they used marijuana.

As you look through the list, I think you will find many musicians. I do believe that marijuana can make someone better at music or painting. Pink Floyd, Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath …All Jazz music…

Almost every single one of these names have admited to smoking cannabis.

• Abbie Hoffman
• Abraham Lincoln. On a Hohner box cover but disputed.
• Al Gore.
• Aldous Huxley
• Aleister Crowley
• Alexander Dumas
• Alice B. Toklas
• Allen Ginsberg. Poet.
• Alexis Korner. Musician.
• Andy Warhol. Artist.
• Annita Roddock. Founder 'The Body Shop'.
• Anjelica Huston. Hollywood actress. Jack Nicholson's girlfriend for 17 years. Pro-drug statements by her in Peter McWilliams book, 'Ain't Nobody's Business if You Do: The Absurdity of Consensual Crimes in Our Free Country'.
• Arthur Conan Doyle. Author, creator 'Sherlock Holmes'.
• Aswad. Musicians.
• Beatles.
• Bill Clinton.
• Bill Gates. Not confirmed, just very strongly hinted at in the Playboy interview
• Bill Murray Arrested for possession
• Bob Denver.
• Bob Dylan. Poet, singer, song writer.
• Bob Marley. Poet, singer, song writer.
• The Bishop of Monmouth.
• Brian Eno. Singer, song writer. Signed 'Independent' list.
• Boy George.
• British Lords & MP's - too many to list .
• Buddy Rich.
• Cab Calloway. Jazz musician.
• Carl Sagan. Author.
• Caroline Coon. Artist, founder 'Release', manager of the Clash.
• Carl Segan . Author.
• Carlos Santana. Musician, guitarist.
• Carrie Fischer.
• Cary Grant.
• Cary Mullis. Nobel Laurate, Biology
• Charles Beaudelaire
• Charles Dickens. Claims but no evdience.
• Cheech Marin.
• Chris Armstrong. Footballer, tested positive.
• Chris Conrad.
• Chris Farley. 60's singer.
• Chris Rock.
• Conan O'Brian.
• Count Basie. Jazz legend.
• Dame Ruth Runsiman. Author; Police Federation Report (March 2000) advising liberlization.
• Dave Gilmour . Musician ; Pink Floyd.
• Dave 'Tinki Winky' Thompson - TV personality (UK); the Tellie Tubbie that was sacked.
• Diego Rivera.
• Dion Fortune.
• Dioscorides.
• Dizzy Gillespie.
• Douglas Adams. Author.
• Dr Francis Crick. Nobel Prize winner.
• Dr Lester Grinspoon.
• Dr Mark Porter. TV doctor who says cannabis is not more harmful than alcohol.
• Dr Anne Biezanek (authoress)
• Dr R.D.Laing.
• Dr John Marks
• Dr W.B. O'Shaugnessy.
• Drew Barrymore.
• Duke Ellington.
• Eddie Ellison. Ex head of Scotland Yard Drug Squad.
• Edgar Allen Poe. Author, multi-drug user.
• Elvis Presley. Singer, FBI informer.
• Emperor Liu Chi-nu.
• Emperor Shen-Nung.
• Ernest Hemmingway. Author.
• Errol Flynn.
• Fela Kuti. Musician. Afro/jazz king.
• Felix Dennis. Publisher.
• Fitz Hugh Ludlow.
• Fran Healey. Musician; Travis.
• Francis Ford Coppella.
• Francis Rabelais.
• Francis Wilkinson. Ex Chief Constable of Gwent Police.
• Fredreich Nietzshe.
• Ganesh - Hindu God.
• Gary Johnson.
• Gene Krupa.
• George Clinton. Ex President's brother.
• George W Bush. Possibly the greatest living hypocrite.
• George Gurdjieff.
• George Melly. Jazz musician (early sponsor of Legalise Cannabis Campaign, Uk).
• George Michael. Singer.
• George Washington.
• George Soros.
• Gerard de Nerval.
• Gilberto Gil. Brazilian musical icon.
• The Greatful Dead.
• Hasan I-Sabah.
• Heinrich Khunrath.
• Helen Petrova Blavatsky.
• Henri Michaux.
• Herman Hesse.
• Hiero the Second.
• Howard Marks. Author, cannabis smuggller.
• Howard Stern, Admitted it on the radio.
• Hua T'o.
• Hunter S. Thompson. Smoked weed and snorted coke with George Bush.
• Ian Botham. Convicted Cricket legend.
• Irvine Welsh.
• Kurt Cobain.
• Jabir Ibn el-Hayyan.
• Jack Herer. Author 'The Emporor Wears No Cloths'
• Jack Kerouac. Author ' On the Road'.
• Jack Nicholson. Film actor.
• Jackie Gleason.
• Jackson Pollock.
• Jane Fonda. Actress.
• James Brown. Singer, song writer.
• Janis Joplin. Singer, song writer.
• Jesse 0Ventura.
• Jerry Lee Lewis. Musician, song writer.
• Jimmy Dorsey.
• Jimmy Hendrix. Rock guitarist, singe, song writer
• Jim Morrison. Musician, songwriter; The Doors.
• Joan of Arc. Accused of using 'witch herbs' (another name for cannabis).
• Joan Rivers.
• Joe Strummer. Musician, singer, songer writer; The Clash.
• John Belushi.
• John Denver.
• John F Kennedy. Popular US president (assassinated).
• John Keats. Poet.
• John Lennon. Musician, song writer; The Beatles.
• John Le Mesurier. Tried it but said it's not for him.
• Johnny Cash.
• John Peel. DJ, BBC broadcaster.
• John Sinclair.
• Judge John L. Kane. Chief Judge from the US District Court
• Julie Christie. Actress.
• Jules Verne.
• John Wayne. 'I tried it once but it didn't do anything to me.'
• Kelsey Grammar.
• Ken Livingston. Mayor of London - supports decriminalisation but does not smoke or support the use of recreational drugs.
• Kirk Douglas. Actor.
• Kurt Cobain.
• Larry Adler. Harmonica player and
friend of George Gershwin. May have written a song about it.
• Lenny Bruce. Comedian.
• Lewis Carroll. Author 'Alice in Wonderland'.
• Linda St Clair
• Little Richard. Musician.
• Lord Avebury.
• Lord Byron. Poet.
• Lord Deedes.
• Lord Tony Gifford. QC, civil rights lawyer.
• Louis Armstrong. 'Oh what a wonderful world'.
• Louis Hebert.
• Mark Thomas . Comedian.
• Marlon Brando. Actor.
• Martin Sheen.
• Mary Shelly. Author 'Frankinstein'.
• Mary Tyler Moore.
• Mick Jagger. Singer, song writer, The Rolling Stones.
• Michael Mansfield QC. Lawyer.
• Jade Jagger.
• JC 100. Fastest rapper in the west.
• JT Moore. Legendary white rasta guitarist.
• Mike Tyson.
• Miles Davis. Jazz/rock drummer.
• Mo Mowlan. Genuine honest politician.
• Modigliani. Sculptor.
• Montgomery Clift. Mentioned in his biography.
• Neil Diamond.
• Nick Hornby. Author.
• Niel Young. Musician.
• Norman Mailer. Author.
• Oasis. Rock band.
• Oliver Stone.
• Oscar Wilde. Poet.
• Pablo Picasso. Artist.
• Pancho Villa. Mexican bandit revolutionary.
• Paul Flynn. Uk Member of Parliament.
• Paul McCartney. Musician, song writer; The Beatles.
• Paul Simon. Musician, song writer.
• Pharoahs of Egypt. Traces in body samples.
• Phil Donohue.
• Phil Tufnell. Former test cricketer, now media celeb.
• Peter Fonda. Actor; 'Easy Rider'.
• Peter Sellers. Actor, comedian.
• Peter Tosh. Musician.
• Philip K. Dick. Science fiction author.
• Pierre Burton.
• Pierre Elliot Trudeau.
• Pink Floyd; Syd Barret and Roger Waters.
• Prince Charles. Heir to the Throne. Quoted while visiting a hospital; 'I understand cannabis is good for medical use' .
• Prince William.
• Prince Harry.
• Pythagoras.
• Queen Arnegunde.
• Queen Victoria. Used it for medical purposes.
• Ram Dass.
• Ray Charles. Musician.
• Rev Kenneth Leech.
• Richard Branson. 'Virgin'. Entreprenur.
• Richard Feynman, Nobel Prize Laureate physicist, founder of quantum electrodynamics.
• Richard Prior.
• Richard Wilson. Actor; 'One Foot in the Grave'.
• Rimbaud. Author.
• Robert Burns. Mentioned it in a poem.
• Robert 'King' Carter. Grower.
• Robert Anton Wilson. Author.
• Robert Mitchum. Jailed 90 days for possession of marijuana, 1949.
• Roger McGough. 60's liverpool poet.
• Rolling Stones. Rock band.
• Ronnie Scot. Jazz club owner, musician, busted on stage 1958, at his club in Soho, London.
• S Club 7. 'Super clean' pop band, busted in Soho, very embarrassing.
• Salvador Dali. Artist.
• Samuel Beckett.
• Samuel Taylor Coleridge. Poet.
• Shen Nung. One of the fathers of Chinese medicine. 2700 B.C .
• Sinead O'Connor. Singer.
• Sidi-Hidi.
• Sigmun Freud. Shrink.
• Sonny Bono.
• Super Furry Animals. Welsh band who wrote a song about Howard Marks.
• Stephen King.
• Sting/Gordon Sumners.
• Tariq Ali. Activist Writer.
• Tenessee Williams. Author.
• Terence McKenna. Author.
• Terry Gilliam. Actor, comedian;Monty Python.
• The Who. Rock band.
• Thelonius Monk.
• Thomas Jefferson.
• Timothy Leary.
• Tom Lehrer.
• Top Tories. Senior members of the shadow cabinet.
• Tony Elliot. Publisher, 'Time Out.
• Tracy Blevins. Artist.
• Tuppy Gore.
• UB40. Band.
• Victor Hugo.
• Vincent Van Gogh. Artist.
• Walt Disney. Cartoonist.
• Walter Benjamin.
• Whitney Houstonn. Busted at Hawaii airport but ran away.
• William Burroughs. Author, poet, artist.
• Will Self. Author. Did smack on Blairs plane.
• William Shakespeare. Playwright.
• William Straw. UK Home Sec Jack Straw's son. Cautioned for supplying undercover journalists in pub 'shocker'.
• Willie Nelson.
• Winston Churchill. British Prime Minister, poet, artist & multi drug user.
• Woody Harrelson. Actor. Features in a book on growing medical marijuana .
• Zoroaster. Persian prophet.

I got this list from another discussion board. Famous people that smoke weed. - Cannabis.com Forums Message Boards - Medical Marijuana, Cannabis Lifestyle, Weed, Culture, News
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Old 10-25-2007, 03:31 PM   #53 (permalink)
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That's what happens when you do drugs, your name ends up on a list.
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Old 10-25-2007, 03:39 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Can you show us a single person that has "benefited society" because of their use of marijuana? Any one, who if they we're high, whouldn't have helped the world in the way that they did. Studies don't have tens of thousands of people, because you can't go get tens of thousands of people to study them while high like you can with eatting McDonalds or smoking. Many studies only involve a dozen or so people, but they are still done under a controled enviroment so the results can be taken to be somewhat accuate as to the effects. If half of the 12 people experiense the same side effects, there is a strong chance that it is caused by smoking pot.
I don't recall ever saying that a person benefited society because of their marijuana use. I do recall saying that many individuals that do smoke (or have smoked) marijuana have been beneficial to society. In this catagory could be such notable people as the late Ken Kesey (author) and Bill Clinton (who really believes that he never inhaled LOL). Even George W Bush has been accussed of being a cocaine user and very likely used marijuana. Of course finding people in places of importance that admit to using marijuana is generally difficult because it is an illegal substance.

As for statistical reliability of a sample size you might not be a mathmatician. While we are all aware of many "samples" such as political polls we know that there is a probability of error even in the best situations. From a mathmatical standpoint any sample below (20) is fundamentally invalid because the odds of inaccuracy is greater than the odds of accuracy. Entering into the question of a sampling accuracy is also the consideration for the pool from which the sample is taken. For example, volunteers for testing display certain tendencies that are not common to the general population. Those tendencies can often effect the outcome and certainly would never reflect the results of a blind sample from the general population.

But you are right in one regard and that is that some people do have problems with smoking marijuana and they shouldn't and probably don't. That doesn't offset the fact that millions of people smoke marijuana at least on a monthly basis and there doesn't seem be any ill effects related to their usage. I will once again bring up the analogy of coffee (or caffeine) use with that of marijuana. Both can be considered a "indulgence" because we don't require either. Both are mind altering drugs that can have adverse side effects. And, both are used by millions of people without any appreciable negative side effects. The primary differences are in the type of high and that caffeine is physically addictive whereas marijuana is not. Both can be emotionally addictive but then a lot of things fall into that catagory.
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:01 PM   #55 (permalink)
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That doesn't offset the fact that millions of people smoke marijuana at least on a monthly basis and there doesn't seem be any ill effects related to their usage. I will once again bring up the analogy of coffee (or caffeine) use with that of marijuana. Both can be considered a "indulgence" because we don't require either. Both are mind altering drugs that can have adverse side effects. And, both are used by millions of people without any appreciable negative side effects. The primary differences are in the type of high and that caffeine is physically addictive whereas marijuana is not. Both can be emotionally addictive but then a lot of things fall into that catagory.
Coffee is not nearly as harmful as marijuana. We've already established that at least once. Not only that, but there isn't a national issue over coffee. Why? Because coffee isn't on the same threatening level as marijuana is. Coffee may be addictive, yes, but so are many things. A person can become addicted to just about anything; computers are a prime example of that. Coffee doesn't have nearly the same detrimental effects that marijuana does, and that's why the marijuana versus coffee argument just doesn't work. Not only that, but this topic isn't about coffee is it? Ranting about what you perceive to be "double standards"--or whatever the hell you see them as--will accomplish nothing, as the point of this debate is to argue whether or not marijuana should be legalized.
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:03 PM   #56 (permalink)
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William Shakespeare is the most recent, they found a pipe among some of his belongings. It was tested and came up positive with THC residue. I also think they found some cannabis seeds too.

As for Abe Lincoln and some of the founding fathers they did grown hemp but hemp is not psychoactive so they probably did not smoke it. George Washington on the other hand said in his diary that he was seperating male and female plants which is only necessary for growing seedless cannabis.

Last edited by HenryDavidThoreau; 10-25-2007 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:04 PM   #57 (permalink)
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I don't recall ever saying that a person benefited society because of their marijuana use. I do recall saying that many individuals that do smoke (or have smoked) marijuana have been beneficial to society. In this catagory could be such notable people as the late Ken Kesey (author) and Bill Clinton (who really believes that he never inhaled LOL). Even George W Bush has been accussed of being a cocaine user and very likely used marijuana. Of course finding people in places of importance that admit to using marijuana is generally difficult because it is an illegal substance.

As for statistical reliability of a sample size you might not be a mathmatician. While we are all aware of many "samples" such as political polls we know that there is a probability of error even in the best situations. From a mathmatical standpoint any sample below (20) is fundamentally invalid because the odds of inaccuracy is greater than the odds of accuracy. Entering into the question of a sampling accuracy is also the consideration for the pool from which the sample is taken. For example, volunteers for testing display certain tendencies that are not common to the general population. Those tendencies can often effect the outcome and certainly would never reflect the results of a blind sample from the general population.

But you are right in one regard and that is that some people do have problems with smoking marijuana and they shouldn't and probably don't. That doesn't offset the fact that millions of people smoke marijuana at least on a monthly basis and there doesn't seem be any ill effects related to their usage. I will once again bring up the analogy of coffee (or caffeine) use with that of marijuana. Both can be considered a "indulgence" because we don't require either. Both are mind altering drugs that can have adverse side effects. And, both are used by millions of people without any appreciable negative side effects. The primary differences are in the type of high and that caffeine is physically addictive whereas marijuana is not. Both can be emotionally addictive but then a lot of things fall into that catagory.
Well, I'll say that the list might be paded a bit with some that wouldn't be called "beneiftial to society" (Super Furry Animals band), but the list is very impressive still. But the list is flawed in the manner that many of these people have admitted that they did it, but that they don't believe that others should do it and that it was a mistake. It's hard to say about those that have died, what their stance might be, but for the living, many are opposed to legalizing.

Some on the list, had the drug (along with others) that worked negatively in their lives or are people, many wouldn't look to a social rolemodels. Edgar Allen Poe, who drank and druged himself to death, Van Go, who cut off his ear as a gift (I don't think that that was a common thing even in those days), George Bush, who is who he is, JFK, who was the best lier that the USA ever had for president, Bill Clinton, who was the worst lier that we've had for president, and many others that used much harder drugs (Crack, Meth, Acid, and more...mostly in the music industry).

I know that you didn't say that the drug made the benefitial people good. What I was implying is that even without the drug, they still would have been just as benefitial to society.
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:09 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Coffee is not nearly as harmful as marijuana. We've already established that at least once. Not only that, but there isn't a national issue over coffee. Why? Because coffee isn't on the same threatening level as marijuana is. Coffee may be addictive, yes, but so are many things. A person can become addicted to just about anything; computers are a prime example of that. Coffee doesn't have nearly the same detrimental effects that marijuana does, and that's why the marijuana versus coffee argument just doesn't work. Not only that, but this topic isn't about coffee is it? Ranting about what you perceive to be "double standards"--or whatever the hell you see them as--will accomplish nothing, as the point of this debate is to argue whether or not marijuana should be legalized.
Coffee is not but caffeine sure is, caffeine pills are sold over the counter to the best of my knowledge and they have their share of overdoses, heart attacks, and psychotic side effects.

What I am trying to say is that it is sold to adults and it is not illegal because of the irresponsibility of a minority.
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:09 PM   #59 (permalink)
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As for statistical reliability of a sample size you might not be a mathmatician. While we are all aware of many "samples" such as political polls we know that there is a probability of error even in the best situations. From a mathmatical standpoint any sample below (20) is fundamentally invalid because the odds of inaccuracy is greater than the odds of accuracy. Entering into the question of a sampling accuracy is also the consideration for the pool from which the sample is taken. For example, volunteers for testing display certain tendencies that are not common to the general population. Those tendencies can often effect the outcome and certainly would never reflect the results of a blind sample from the general population.
There is a fundemental flaw in comparing the accuatecy based on test size to a political poll and a scientific test. Tests are held under strict controled conditions, makeing them more accuarate under a smaller sample size, while polls are done to random people, and so have a larger scope on inaccuratecy at the same size study.
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:12 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Coffee is not but caffeine sure is, caffeine pills are sold over the counter to the best of my knowledge and they have their share of overdoses, heart attacks, and psychotic side effects.

What I am trying to say is that it is sold to adults and it is not illegal because of the irresponsibility of a minority.
Caffine pills have a use over and beyond that of personal enjoyment. They are used to keep you awake and focused.
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