I am going to go out on a limb here and say something that will get me into trouble.
It is only in the last century that all children (at least in the first world) have been sent to school for a dozen years. Before the first world war only the children of the wealthy and upper middle classes were highly educated , the rest were taught only enough to get by in a job and then sent on to apprenticeships and sweat shop jobs and of course, domestic service. It changed after that war and again even more so from about the 1950s. Now its become a right that all children should be given as much education as we can possibly drum into them.
Is it possible that not every child is university material? Are we perhaps trying to force an unrealistic level of education on every single child in the system. Should we not perhaps give consideration to vocational training?
Please don't imagine for one minute imagine that I am suggesting a 'them' and 'us' situation. I am all for sending kids to school at the age of three and keeping them there until they are old enough to have their own kids at 30, so this is ot my thinking its merely another model to be considered.
If we did consider vocational training, how could it be implemented. Obvioiusly the idea of full academic education for every child is not working, so what about a more practical model?

Well, I see your point. However, one must remember that in the United States children are not forced to attend High School after the age of 16 (if I remember correctly). Considering one starts at age 5 or 6, that is ten years of education we invest in a person. I don't see it as entirely unreasonable.

I don't think we put too much on kids, either. There are of course the kids who take many advanced courses and college credits, but that is simply a move on the childs part. There are programs in schools which allow you the "bare minimum" in order to get out and find a job.

Basically, I think we can conclude that it is in our best interests as a First World, Industrialized, and Free-trading society to ensure that children are being educated (both in and out of the home) to make the best decisions possible and tools with which to achieve those ends. As stated earlier: parents may be dropping the ball on the in the home portion, so would it be worth it to risk it with the out of home portion?

__________________
"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."
Isaac Asimov

No they're not forced to here either. They claim that they have to stay in school until 16 but we have a hard enough job getting parents to register their kids births here let alone get them to school by the age of 5 and staying there for 12 years.
Our education department is working on a program to get kids trained in vocational skills. Not generally but to at least help some of the ones who would otherwise drop out to have at least some saleable skills but at the moment it's still in the 'talking about' stage. We brought in OBE a few years ago, the teachers don't like it, the older ones still prefer the 'sit in your place and do what I say' type of teaching, which doesn't really work very well with modern children.
But I really think that parents have a much bigger role to play and they don't take enough responsibility.

The problem is simple. Kids suck, the whole lot of entitled cell phone mooching little brats need corporal punishment.

That was Bradgriff's statement close to the beginning of this discussion. I'm a little surprised that it didn't raise a voice or two. My two sons are grown, but now my grandchildren are coming along. I hope this isn't a general impression of what people really think is out there in the schools.

Unfortunately it is. I fear for my own grandchildren. Not that I have any or even prospects of any but it seems that schools throughout the world are having similar problems. I don't know why they have to take all the toys to school with them. We managed and my children managed without phones ipods and other appliances at school, We didn't even have calculators just our brains and log books. Yet we turned out some very well educated people. I just think they go to school too late are given too many gadgets and stay at school too long. You should have only the ones who really want to achieve something in the higher classes. All the layabouts who want to wate their time and everybody else's should be sent out to get jobs.
I am a bit harsh sometimes, I have a good answer when I hear teenagers tell ing their parents 'I'm not a child' 'If you're not a child, why are you still at school, still living with your parents and eating their food. As long as you do that you are a child even if you are 30 years old.' These are the kids that needed to be booted into the job market faster than they can tel you that they aren't children.

Agrippina,
Frankly, I wonder if this is the general attitude toward children in school, is that part of the problem. I never was frustrated by anything with my sons or other children. I voluntered for many activities with my sons and coached their teams in sports. I know others don't have that kind of time. Sometimes there were troubled kids with questionable parents, but things seemed to work out with a little effort. Maybe the kids that suck have parents that suck? Maybe there is a lack of effort with parents and teachers today. I doubt seriously that the problem begins with the children.

The problem never begins with the children. Bad parents have bad children. Of course there are exceptions. Children have problems today that we didn't have and that our children perhaps didn't have or that weren't diagnosed. If you have kids with ADD or ADHD you can be the best parent in the world and not be able to help the child. Also because perhaps of the lifestyle, stress, food additives etc, there seems to be more and more of this sort of problem happending, then you have kids who have Foetal alcohol syndrome, where they are born already alcoholics or kids with drug addict mothers who are born drug addicts. We didn't have these problems at least not when I was young. Our mothers didn't really drink and certainly didn't do drugs and our food, well my mother grew her own fruit and vegetables so it was all picked fresh from the garden for cooking. That plays a huge role in what happens to kids.
Then a I said at the start, you have simply bad parents who think they don't have to do anything except bear the child, the world around them will do the rest.

Agrippina,
We raised a foster son who had ADD. When we got him on a good diet he got off the pills and did great in school. Looks like we're agreeing here. I'm worried about what my grandchildren may be up against.

Can I be real blunt here. No Child Left Behind or not, if the child learns what he is taught in school, then the test wont be a problem. Problem is, the schools are teaching to the test, not the teachers. The teachers are being told to teach to the test to make the higher ups look good.

As for curriculm, with 15 point curved in classes on all tests, all I have to do to get an A is study for a 75, a C. Did I really learn anything? This is what happened in college with me. I graduated in Biology & Chemistry and almost every test in every class had this 15 point curve. How does that help learning again?

We are appluading mediocrity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My wife, a retired teacher in Texas, and myself, an educated man, Masters, could not agree with you more. George Bush, who I voted for is interested in only one thing, if you get down to realistic thought. His proverbial point is to make sure that all Mexicans, Latino, and Middle Eastern children, in Houston and Texas pass what my children and my wife notate as fourth grade curriculum. This is what they teach eleventh and twelfth grade students in Texas. My wife, fortunaltely, was able to retire from the TRS school system before this Congress and Bush required each teacher in Texas be able to speak Spanish, Urdu, and Arabic languages. These children receive lunch, housing, and utility subsidy from the Government yet they demand that classes be taught in their Native tongue. Hooray, for old Age and Retirement!!!