MikeT

Ceci--you're right, it is very sad. I wish we could do more about it. I'm hoping to one day find a way to lend my voice to those who are dismantling that socialization, maybe do even more. It's become a passion of mine as the more I try to share the facts and evidence that debunk much of the propoganda, the more I come up against "Klan rhetoric."

It's a true challenge.

Ghost:

Just who should be held personally responsible for the systemic racist disparities in this country?

Who's responsible for black men of equal education, equal backgrounds, equal skill and equal intellect being paid for doing the exact same job, 75% of what white men make--nation-wide and across the board?

Who is responsible for that?

Can you answer that question?

Ghost Rider

What on earth does that 'question' have to do with the question of this thread - 'Is there empathy for black people'? Nothing. That's baggage from a different thread.

The question here is 'is there empathy for black people'?

My answer - you can't have empathy unless you have experienced it yourself.

geeeeeesh

MikeT

Are you saying you can't answer the question I posed?

You wrote:
What on earth does that statement have to do with the question fo this thread--'Is there empathy for black people'? Nothing. That's baggage from a different thread.

The question here is 'is there empathy for black people'?

My answer--you can have empathy if you've ever experienced injustice, exclusion, erroneous judgements about who you are, been the brunt of a stereotype, and/or know what it's like to work hard only to be undermined by the motivations of others.

geeeeeesh!

Ghost Rider

You are totally off topic.
It isn't deserving of an answer in THIS thread.

It was in direct response to Ceci for Cecis statement of the same vein.
Didn't bother to see that, did you?

Then we agree. You can't have empathy unless you have walked in the person's shoes or experienced what they have experienced.

I said basically the same thing but with less words.
You didn't really read what I posted. You just WANT to argue.

I agree. geeeeeesh!

MikeT

Sure it is. We're discussing having empathy with black people, correct? I asked: "Just who should be held personally responsible for the systemic racist disparities in this country?Who is responsible for that?
Can you answer that question?" as a rebuttal to your utterly unempathetic question about blacks blaming whites for THEIR ills--as you phrased it.

In answering the question, from your perspective, then perhaps you could understand who is actually responsible for the systemic racism that causes much of the 'ills' that blacks face.

If the goal is to have empathy, doesn't that mean at least making an attempt to understand the causes and the consequences of systemic racism, wouldn't you agree?

(Btw, that is a question being asked of you.)

I did see it--even responded to it. That you believethis thread--about having empathy for black people--is the proper place to accuse blacks of unjustly and improperly blaming white people for white people's racism is the reason I posed my question to begin with.


Right, and that means that people of different races can have empathy with each other.

I want to debate. Last I checked, these forums weren't designed for a mutual admiration society.

Ghost Rider

Empathy isn't a goal. As I said. You can't have empathy unless you have experienced something similar. You have just invented it to be a goal. I simply answered the question posed.

No kidding. Another attempt by you at board domination. Flood a thread
with questions - on topic or not - already answered or not. ha ha ha
Totally off topic and a piss poor attempt.

It is the proper place. this isn't a thread about how to have empathy for black people. It is a thread to answer a question. If someone on this thread unjustly and improperly makes an anti-white statement then I sure as all heck will make a statement right back to show that person the error of her (or his) ways. Like you said - this isn't a mutual admiration society.

I already said that. You just want to fight with someone.
And you aren't listening. Strange.

Bu-bye

Ceci

So, you are saying that you don't have empathy for Black people, is that correct?

That means that you are willing to ignore a part of their identity in order to relate to them? As long as their identity is partially complete you could connect with them as long as racial disparity is not discussed?


We're talking about empathy instead of sympathy.

So, you have no empathy for those who have had racial injustice today or in the past?


And what does this have to do with the subject matter?

Again, what does this have to do with the subject matter? Can you make yourself clear here?

__________________
Ceci's News and Views Forum

Ghost Rider

It's impossible to have true empathy for someone unless you have experienced what they have experienced. You can sympthize. But you can't empathize. It's impossible. You can accept what they say as truth and move with it, but that's not true empathy and it's impossible to really feel what they are feeling (which is empathy) unless you have also experienced something similar.

Empathy is completely feeling and understanding how the other person feels. That isn't possible without having experienced the same thing.

If I had cancer, you couldn't empathize unless you had experienced cancer too. You could sympathize and feel for me, but you wouldn't understand and feel what I feel unless you had it too.

Same with being black. I can't empathize with being black because I'm not black. I can empathize with some of the things that some black people have gone through, but I can't feel what a black person feels because I'm not black. I don't have the 'black experience' that is needed to truly empathize with being black.

Racial injustice? Sure. THAT I can empathize with. But I can't empathize with being black, because i never have been and the total black experience is not something I have experienced.

Empathy does not equal pity and it is different than sympathy. Empathy is when you actually feel what the other person feels because you have a shared experience.

I did.

Dragon Horse

I just wanted to add that people should really get a picture of what black America is in 2007:

2004 University of Georgia Selig Center study, U.S. Census Bureau, National Black Chamber of Commerce, Target Market News, 2004 NUL "State of Black America" Report
74% live above the poverty line (vs. 10% in 1940 and 45% in 1960). All-time high above poverty: 79% in 2001
5% rich, 44% middle class, 27% working class, 24% poor (2004)
Overall median household income: $$37,000 (2000). Median income for married households: $48,000 (2002)
Top 5 states with highest median black household income: New Hampshire $43,574, Alaska $42,887, Maryland $41,652, Hawaii $41,032, New Jersey $38,513


US Census:

0%
Among blacks age 25 and older, the proportion that had at least a high school diploma in 2005. In states such as Colorado, the proportion was even higher – 90 percent. (Source: 2005 American Community Survey)

17%
Percentage of blacks age 25 and older who had a bachelor’s degree or more in 2005. In many states, the rate was higher. Twenty-six percent of blacks this age in Colorado, for instance, had this level of education. (Source: 2005 American Community Survey)

1.1 million
Among blacks age 25 and older, the number who had an advanced degree in 2005 (e.g., master’s, Ph.D., M.D. or J.D.). Ten years earlier — in 1995 — only 677,000 blacks had this level of education.
<http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/education/007660.html>

2.3 million
Number of black college students in fall 2004. This was an increase of roughly 1 million from 15 years earlier. <http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/education/005787.html>


The black poverty rate is about 20% right now, but one has to also remember that in 1959 was 55%...I'm 30 and my mother was born in 1954, so the civil rights movement was 1.5 generations ago that is pretty high progress.

Most black people today (despite the underclass) are middle class and they are doing better than Hispanics on average...however blacks have the highest class stratification in the country. The gap between the middle class and the very poor is extreme.



Historical Poverty Tables

MikeT

Excellent stats Dragon Horse--they completely debunk the myths of the unmotivated, drug addicted, welfare grubbing, sex-starved thug that is often used to portray black people.

Where we find difficulty, however, is in comparing those stats to those for white people. The difference shows the measure of inequality we still must work to eradicate. Just like during the Civil Rights era, no changes will happen if people don't make an effort to bring about change.

For instance, when it's no longer true that comparable blacks earn 75% of what their comparable white counterparts do, then we'll have begun to reach our goal.

I think you can agree with that.