Is There Empathy for Black people? - Page 2 - Political Forum

Ceci · 08-21-2007, 04:55 PM

Another thing that I find whenever empathy is questioned, is to consider its flip side. It is always important to question the consequences of what happens when someone claims to not have "empathy". Going back to the psycho-social explaination again, I think that when there is a lack of empathy, that ventures toward a sense of narcissicism as well as a form of psychopathy.

Meaning that, when one doesn't care for other human beings--or refuses to identify with them, they tend to work for their own selfish gratification (in terms of narcissicism) as well as set a dangerous precedent of not feeling any sense of connection with others (which are, by some theorists, praised within certain cultures and nations). So that when there are people who feel a genuine sense of pain, struggle or hurt the people who don't care express a lack of emotion in response.

(I'll find some sources to back this up, later

).

I think it's rather disturbing, in that light, that people would be almost proud and petulantly announcing that they "don't feel empathy for anyone".

my two cents.

Viv · 08-21-2007, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceci

Another thing that I find whenever empathy is questioned, is to consider its flip side. It is always important to question the consequences of what happens when someone claims to not have "empathy". Going back to the psycho-social explaination again, I think that when there isn't a lack of empathy, that ventures toward a sense of narcissicism as well as a form of psychopathy.

Meaning that, when one doesn't care for other human beings--or refuses to identify with them, they tend to work for their own selfish gratification (in terms of narcissicism) as well as set a dangerous precedent of not feeling any sense of connection with others (which are, by some theorists, praised within certain cultures and nations). So that when there are people who feel a genuine sense of pain, struggle or hurt--that these people who don't feel a sense of empathy "won't feel anything" due to the lack of connection.

(I'll find some sources to back this up, later

).

I think it's rather disturbing, in that light, that people would be almost proud and petulantly announcing that they "don't feel empathy for anyone".

my two cents.

The original question implies criticism of anyone who doesn't empathise with Black people. That puts one on the defensive.
I think anyone can empathise with the history of black people. But not everyone will accept being blamed for it.

FRYandBENDER · 08-21-2007, 05:26 PM

Well then, by going by your definition I don't think I can empathize. I can know what black people have gone through, but I don't think I can precisely perceive what it feels like to be a black person. I can understand that black people during the civil rights movement had water hoses and dogs let loose on them, but I can't understand how that changed them emotionally or psychologically.

I suppose for less intense purposes I can empathize with black people, but I'll never really "get it."

Ceci · 08-21-2007, 07:20 PM

Just checking in here....

I read the latest responses (and I still have to get to some earlier responses, so sit tight.

)and I have a couple of questions to ask of Viv and Fry(or anyone else who feel they cannot empathize with Black people):

1)How would you rewrite the rules of empathy?

(I am asking this because you both seem dissatisfied with the definitions of empathy and, state that this is rather "black and white" (pardon the pun) in terms of its terminology. However, I must note that there isn't a right or wrong answer with the question in the OP that I asked. I am more interested in people's attitudes in this issue because it might make some things clear about how people deal with "otherness" and "diversity".)

2)Taking the "empathizing with events" off the table, could you identify and feel compassion for Black people in general?

3)Do you feel that there is something disturbing and troubling about not being able to identify/and or connect with people outside your race (without the acknowledgement of events, and of the like)?

I am very curious to how you both would answer this.

Ceci · 08-21-2007, 07:29 PM

As for Viv's answer......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viv

The original question implies criticism of anyone who doesn't empathise with Black people.

It does? Frankly, it's just a question that encourages exploration of one's attitudes about Black people in general. After all, not everyone is going to fall in line and feel empathy for the "other". And people openly admit it, as they have done here. That's a fact, even though it is very sad to me.

What about all the posters who agreed that they didn't feel empathy?

Quote:

That puts one on the defensive.

African Americans (and other groups of color) have to face criticism from the dominant culture repeatedly day after day, year after year. There are a lot of things that some white people say that put a lot of non-whites "on the defensive" in many types of situations.

Mike T broke it down on the first page. Kudos to him.

Quote:

I think anyone can empathise with the history of black people. But not everyone will accept being blamed for it.

This has nothing to do with empathizing with the history of Black people. This does have to do with connecting and identifying with Black people in general. Now that's the main question.

Furthermore, the "Sins of the Fathers" nor blame (which goes back to the "stereotypical assumptions" that are derived from this issue) hasn't even been introduced in this thread (not by me, anyway). This is basically a question asking whether people feel empathy for Blacks and the exploration of the sociological/psychological factors behind it.

In fact, I don't think anyone mentioned the "sins of the father" stuff here in this thread as of yet. That's another topic for another thread.

But, thank you for your insights.

sybarite · 08-21-2007, 08:48 PM

Empathy---absolutely. I can even pinpoint the moment when an intellectual attitude that blacks should be treated equally became an understanding---to some extent---of the plight of the minorities.

I was drafted. After a day of basic training during which we were treated with absolute disrespect, shown that we were indeed only a GI number. I noticed that one young black man was not particularly disturbed. I asked him why. He said it was this way every day for a black boy in Mississippi.

I got the point. They are second class citizens, whether we admit it or not. They are not treated as equals. Fortunately for me, I would get out of basic training and the Army. They will be black every day of their lives.

You want to play racist games? You will have to go through me and the others like me who learned a little bit about what it meant to be black. I feel every insensitive word and have utter disdain for someone who doesn't care.

J.Locke777 · 08-21-2007, 09:51 PM

[quote=Ceci;65791]As for Viv's answer......

Quote:

African Americans (and other groups of color) have to face criticism from the dominant culture repeatedly day after day, year after year. There are a lot of things that some white people say that put a lot of non-whites "on the defensive" in many types of situations.

Can you show us any instances of racisim? Not in isolated cases, but institutionalized racism?

Quote:

This has nothing to do with empathizing with the history of Black people. This does have to do with connecting and identifying with Black people in general. Now that's the main question.

well, I can't identify with the black community because I'm not a part of it. I can empathize with them, but no one, other than other black people, can Identify with the black community. Unless you can show me proof otherwise, and not in isolated instances.

I just wanted to argue the other side of the spectrum here, because I can see the legitimacy of the arguement.

Inan’Ta · 08-21-2007, 11:41 PM

I have noticed something. When people talk about Africa they generalize Africa as if it’s one big country rather than it being the second largest continent and the most diverse. And now when people are referring to Black people they make the same ignorant mistake and generalize black people as if the whole black population is one individual who has the same characteristics, history and culture.

What is black history? Maybe African American History, but there is no such thing as Black History.

Ceci · 08-22-2007, 12:44 AM

For the sake of continuity, I will address your comments here and try to work in some of the things that you have said in a previous post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.Locke777

Can you show us any instances of racisim? Not in isolated cases, but institutionalized racism?

Where do I begin? I might as well deal with the most obvious: racial profiling.

Quote:

Amnesty International

Racial profiling occurs when race is used by law enforcement or private security officials, to any degree, as a basis for criminal suspicion in non-suspect specific investigations. Discrimination based on race, ethnicity, religion, nationality or on any other particular identity undermines the basic human rights and freedoms to which every person is entitled.

In fact, Amnesty International goes on to explain five truths about it. But, I would like to focus on just two things here:

Quote:

The Truth About Racial Profiling: FIVE FACTS

Statistics have proven that using racial profiling to interdict highway-bound drug couriers is not just wrong, but ineffective. A survey by the Department of Justice in 1999 revealed that while officers disproportionately focused on African-American and Latino drivers, they found drugs more often when they searched whites (17%) than when they searched African Americans (8%). A similar survey in New Jersey found that although people of color were searched more frequently, state troopers found drugs in vehicles driven by whites 25% of the time, by African Americans 13%, and by Latinos 5%.

According to a study of the U.S. Customs Service's practices by Lamberth Consulting, when Customs agents stopped using racial profiling to target potential smugglers and began focusing on race-neutral factors such as behavior, they increased their rate of productive searches by more than 300%.

[...]

Both President Bush and Attorney General Ashcroft are on record as opposing racial profiling. Just after the September 11th attacks, the Attorney General repeated this commitment. However, since then the administration has allowed important anti-racial profiling legislation, such as the End Racial Profiling Act, to languish. At the same time, the administration has expanded the use of racial profiling by implementing immigration and law enforcement policies such as the National Security Entry/Exit Registration System, which called in male visitors over age 16 from 24 Arab and Muslim countries and North Korea for registration and interrogation.

Although a directive issued by President Bush in June 2003 does ban racial profiling by federal law enforcement agencies, it contains several major flaws. These include: an exception for the use of race in "national security" investigations; a lack of enforcement mechanisms; and no mandated data collection on law enforcement practices. Moreover, state and local law enforcement agencies are not bound by this measure.

There's more where that came from, but this is a very basic explaination with statistics about a type of institutional racism that is going on as we speak.

Quote:

well, I can't identify with the black community because I'm not a part of it.

You don't have to be a part of the Black community in order to identify and connect with the people within it. I believe that one just has to have the passion and the curiosity to reach out and continue to change their mindset in terms of refusing to see Black people or any "other" person outside one's group as being minimalized. One has to have empathy in order to respect another person and understand where they are coming from.

That's different than hurling accusations about the "race card" and telling Blacks to "stop looking for giveaways and get a job".

Quote:

I can empathize with them, but no one, other than other black people, can Identify with the black community.

That's not true. I know of many white people who are very comfortable around Black people and are not shy when asking things about the culture. And because of these experiences, the people that I know are loving and understanding people who want to understand and to identify with Blacks in all permutations. They had gotten over their fear and the stereotypes that produce them. And, because of that reason, they had developed a very wonderful sense of empathy.

Now, that's where individuality comes in.

Quote:

I just wanted to argue the other side of the spectrum here, because I can see the legitimacy of the arguement.

I understand. I'm not saying that you are one, but there are many skeptics out there who feel that to "attack empathy" makes them stronger and more righteous than those who care. That's why there is such an assault on the notion of "victimhood" and what it means.

Expect a second part to your inquiries soon.

Ceci · 08-22-2007, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inan’Ta

I have noticed something. When people talk about Africa they generalize Africa as if it’s one big country rather than it being the second largest continent and the most diverse.

I know. My friend from South Africa jokes about that all the time with the stupid replies that he gets about Africa and Africans. But, I can only speak for myself: I do know the difference between African history and African-American history. I have a healthy respect and empathy for both. And, I realize, as someone black, that part of both histories are featured in my own.

Quote:

And now when people are referring to Black people they make the same ignorant mistake and generalize black people as if the whole black population is one individual who has the same characteristics, history and culture.

Which is another thread for another time--especially when it comes down to how Black people in America view themselves and how Black people (in the Diaspora) and in Africa think of themselves. I'd be fascinated to read such a thread if it is made because I understand that African Blacks have different views than Blacks in the Diaspora on many matters.

Quote:

What is black history?

More or less, a manufactured title in academia to describe a rich and varied history covering a vast and resilient group of people originating from one region in the world and spreading out into the four corners of the earth.

Quote:

Maybe African American History, but there is no such thing as Black History.

Now, I wouldn't say that there isn't such a thing. But, I would say that in the academy, there needs to be a reframing of our histories so that our voices are heard properly and that others will not speak for us.