Hempfest 2007 - Page 3 - Political Forum

Locke9-05 · 09-17-2007, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iTaliAN_ICe

One question. If "god doesn't make any mistakes", then why are humans "downright fuck-ups"?

It never fails, atheists, agnostics, etc. almost always ask this question. I'll tell ya, it's an easy question to answer:

We are sentient beings, the only sentient beings on the planet. What does that mean? We have free will. According to the Bible--which is the basis for answering your question--God gave humankind the gift of free will. It was a gift, it was the perfect gift. There you have it. We were given the gift of free will, therefore he granted us the responsibility to make our own decisions. God didn't screw up, God didn't fail in any way. We failed God. We were given a great gift and we squandered it. I believe that God--being omnipotent, omniscient, etc.--has the power to intervene in the world's events, and I believe he has before. However, the Bible tells us that he left it up to us, as sentient beings to determine our own futures to make our own choices. He gave us guidelines, but he wanted to see whether or not we'd have the decency to follow them.

HenryDavidThoreau · 09-17-2007, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke9-05

Hah! Are you kidding? God's creation is perfect, a true mirror reflection of his own perfection. God makes no mistakes. Cannabis as a plant is harmless, in fact most of--if not all--plants that are converted into drugs by people have genuine medicinal properties. What most people either refuse to acknowledge or are too ignorant to realize is that the process of refining drugs like marijuana and cocaine involves extracting a single tiny (usually addictive, unhealthy, etc.) element of the plant, intensifying it, then repeating the process numerous times. The result of the process is the creation of disgusting substances that idiots like those at "Hempfest" mindlessly indulge on. Only a human being could take something as harmless as cannabis and turn it into something vile for the sole purpose of idiotic mindless indulgence.

God doesn't make mistakes, humans make mistakes, in fact humans are downright fuck-ups. If you're going to blaspheme around people who are sensitive to that sort of thing, I'd appreciate it if you'd please at least take some time to read up on the issue you're commenting on (in this case the process of refining drugs like marijuana, cocaine, etc.)

I sorry to inform you but marijuana does not have a refinement process, it does not even have to be dried to be used by humans. The THC it contains is 100% natural. What about peyote and psilocybin mushrooms? No refinement process and are 100% natural.

Scribbler1 · 09-17-2007, 09:36 PM

But he's right in that pot does have great medicinal value.

Locke9-05 · 09-17-2007, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HenryDavidThoreau

I sorry to inform you but marijuana does not have a refinement process, it does not even have to be dried to be used by humans. The THC it contains is 100% natural. What about peyote and psilocybin mushrooms? No refinement process and are 100% natural.

That's ridiculous, the plant cannabis in its natural form is--huh, think of that--cannabis... Heellloo!... The smoked, inhaled, etc. form of cannabis is not natural. Refining of a plant to create something for the sole purpose of getting high and stupid at the same time is not natural. That's the argument here. You asked why God created cannabis if God doesn't make mistakes. I answered it. God didn't create marijuana, marijuana is the vile invention of mankind, as are all other pointless, harmful recreational drugs

iTaliAN_ICe · 09-17-2007, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke9-05

It never fails, atheists, agnostics, etc. almost always ask this question. I'll tell ya, it's an easy question to answer:

We are sentient beings, the only sentient beings on the planet. What does that mean? We have free will. According to the Bible--which is the basis for answering your question--God gave humankind the gift of free will. It was a gift, it was the perfect gift. There you have it. We were given the gift of free will, therefore he granted us the responsibility to make our own decisions. God didn't screw up, God didn't fail in any way. We failed God. We were given a great gift and we squandered it. I believe that God--being omnipotent, omniscient, etc.--has the power to intervene in the world's events, and I believe he has before. However, the Bible tells us that he left it up to us, as sentient beings to determine our own futures to make our own choices. He gave us guidelines, but he wanted to see whether or not we'd have the decency to follow them.

This is where it loses me.

If we were given free will by god, then why would he care if we chose not to believe in or worship him? After all, he allowed it with his "gift" of free will. Why would he want his creations to suffer? If there is a god and he is benevolent, wouldn't it make more sense for him to reveal himself to his creations rather than "testing" us to see if we believe in his existence or not, and punishing us if we fail?

I'm sure I've had this discussion before; it may have been with you.

HenryDavidThoreau · 09-17-2007, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke9-05

That's ridiculous, the plant cannabis in its natural form is--huh, think of that--cannabis... Heellloo!... The smoked, inhaled, etc. form of cannabis is not natural. Refining of a plant to create something for the sole purpose of getting high and stupid at the same time is not natural. That's the argument here. You asked why God created cannabis if God doesn't make mistakes. I answered it. God didn't create marijuana, marijuana is the vile invention of mankind, as are all other pointless, harmful recreational drugs

Why did God create plants/fungi that contain psychoactive compounds?

Locke9-05 · 09-17-2007, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iTaliAN_ICe

This is where it loses me.

If we were given free will by god, then why would he care if we chose not to believe in or worship him? After all, he allowed it with his "gift" of free will. Why would he want his creations to suffer? If there is a god and he is benevolent, wouldn't it make more sense for him to reveal himself to his creations rather than "testing" us to see if we believe in his existence or not, and punishing us if we fail?

I'm sure I've had this discussion before; it may have been with you.

It's free will, that's what makes us sentient. God allows us to think for ourselves, so based on individual belief, your actions and choices here on Earth will determine whether or not you go to heaven, Valhalla

, burn in hell--or if you're an agnostic or atheist become dust and nothing else--, etc.

I don't judge people based on their faith, it's not up to me to decide whether they're wrong or right. I believe what I believe simply because that's who I am, that's how my faith guides me.

I believe God is kind and loving, but that doesn't mean we aren't allowed to question his motives. Curiosity is an animal instinct and it's completely natural. I believe that God hoped for the best upon the creation of Adam and Eve--the first humans--but was disappointed by their sins. They were banished from paradise forever, and therefore by natural Biblical deduction, humankind is still living that punishment. I don't think there's anything wrong with the test of faith. It's an emotionally powerful and enlightening test, one that I would think everyone struggles with no matter what their faith.

Locke9-05 · 09-17-2007, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HenryDavidThoreau

Why did God create plants/fungi that contain psychoactive compounds?

That's a relatively dumb question... That's like asking why God created metals like lead that could be molded into bullets and fired from guns as deadly projectiles. It's humankind's fault, Thoreau, take some damn responsibility. God created these things the way he did for his own reasons. Hunters and gatherers found that chewing on the leaves of the coca plant--which of course is used to make cocaine--increased their life span. The plants in and of themselves are either harmless--or healthy for that matter. Humans choose to turn them into something disgusting and unnatural. Not God

HenryDavidThoreau · 09-17-2007, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke9-05

That's a relatively dumb question... That's like asking why God created metals like lead that could be molded into bullets and fired from guns as deadly projectiles. It's humankind's fault, Thoreau, take some damn responsibility. God created these things the way he did for his own reasons. Hunters and gatherers found that chewing on the leaves of the coca plant--which of course is used to make cocaine--increased their life span. The plants in and of themselves are either harmless--or healthy for that matter. Humans choose to turn them into something disgusting and unnatural. Not God

So you admit that these drugs can be used as tools when used responsibly? You have psychoactive compounds that are released in your brain naturally such as painkilling endorphins or even the psychedelic compound DMT.

Scribbler1 · 09-17-2007, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke9-05

That's ridiculous, the plant cannabis in its natural form is--huh, think of that--cannabis... Heellloo!... The smoked, inhaled, etc. form of cannabis is not natural. Refining of a plant to create something for the sole purpose of getting high and stupid at the same time is not natural. That's the argument here. You asked why God created cannabis if God doesn't make mistakes. I answered it. God didn't create marijuana, marijuana is the vile invention of mankind, as are all other pointless, harmful recreational drugs

Wrong. Marijuana IS cannabis. It's just the name given to the cannabis sativa plant. It is not "processed" per se, but merely dried and smoked. However, it CAN be eaten as well.

So I guess the question could be rephrased to say, why would God create a plant that can get you high in the first place?

And not all "pointless recreational drugs" are all that vile. Cocaine, as you may know is a trademark, registered with the government by the Bayer company.