"Black people need to listen to X" - Page 3 - Political Forum

Xibit · #21 (**permalink**) 08-08-2007, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pablo Jones

The last time I checked, there was only one RACE in the world and that was the Human Race..

The last time I checked, such factoids didn't mean a damn thing as it relates to the lived experience and social reality of people. That there is only one RACE didn't do a damn thing to avert America's racialized slave-system. The ONE RACE truism ain't never stopped someone from being racially profiled either.

Xibit · #22 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 08:17 AM

Okay, WEB - Why Skip Gates?

W.E.B. Du Bois · #23 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 10:37 AM

Xibit, you have completely failed in this thread. I mean this is one of the worst threads I have ever seen. You started this thread with a very interesting question, to which I gave a very promising response by listing several prominent African-Americans who have suggested what blacks should do. You had the opportunity and you presented the entire forum with the opportunity to list all the ideas in the pantheon about what black people should do.

What did you do with this opportunity? You turned it into a fucking racist accusation thread. You completely ignored the issue of what blacks should do and the ideas mentioned by scholars, leaders and other people about what blacks should do and instead now merely make thinly veiled accusations of racism at individual posters.

I'll allow you to try to redeem this thread for the promise (which apparently was a ploy) that this thread initially held out. I will let you know that as far as your membership on this forum is concerned you are skating on very thin ice. If you do this again: turn a great opportunity to discuss the issues here into another pathetic racist accusation thread, your membership on this forum will be permanently revoked.

WEB

Xibit · #24 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 09:08 PM

WEB, I saw your thread (The Roots of African-American Social Problems in the US and How to Fix Them) in the Articles forum. There, you posted the "Hard Truths" commentary by Skip Gates. Would you mind elaborating on your selective? What about Skip Gates and his philosophies do you find useful/instructive?

W.E.B. Du Bois · #25 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 09:22 PM

I'm going to decline to discuss with you. I'm not interested in that. Others may avail themselves of the "opportunity."

WEB

Xibit · #26 (**permalink**) 08-10-2007, 08:20 AM

Is this the same thing?

Scenario #1:

A person I'm acquainted with has a whole network of family and friends who are members of the local government, school board, etc. His dad and uncles are city council members; brothers long time policemen and members of school board; mother is a principal, etc. I talked to this person about the issues I have with the city and its schools and tell him how I think the local gov't/board should take certain actions or take certain issues seriously. I tell him that "somebody's not doing their job."

Scenario #2:

I take the opportunity to tell my acquaintance about the problems I see with his family, how they act, his father's alcoholism.... you name it. I then tell him that I always liked his uncle Louie and figure he's the person his family should listen to and emulate. Mind you, I only acquainted with this person and his family. I don't know them personally and I'm not in his family or counted amongst his friends, per se. I tell him "this is what ya'll need to do."

MikeT · #27 (**permalink**) 08-10-2007, 11:10 AM

Here's the thing, racism has nothing to do with minorities, including black peope.

Racism is the belief that your skin color/ethnicity are superior to others. Racism breeds discrimination. Black people (and minorities) can listen to anyone they want, emulate anyone they want, or conversely anyone tells them to, and it will not change the belief that white society has that they are inferior because of their skin color--because no matter who blacks or other minorities emulate, it will NOT change their skin color.

As well, no matter what blacks or minorities do, it will not change those who discriminate against them, nor systemic racism in white society, because they are discriminated against through NO fault of their own.

The fault lies solely with white society and they systemic racism borne of that racism.

In order to 'fix' any problems based on racism on discrimination, we must 'fix' what's wrong--and that is they falsely held, mythological beliefs borne of ignorance and carried out through white society in our very systems.

Asking a black man to listen to Bill Cosby will not change the disparity in wages that the a black man sees doing the equal work, with equal skill and talent as that of his white counterparts.

Asking a black woman to listen to Oprah Winfrey will not make her any less discriminated against by white society.

It's white society that needs to change, not blacks or minorities.

The discussion, therefore, should be: Who should WHITE people listen to in order to enlighten and educate them about the harm they cause when they act out on their false beliefs?

That is the better question.

Aegis · #28 (**permalink**) 08-10-2007, 11:49 AM

[quote=MikeT;61023]

Quote:

Here's the thing, racism has nothing to do with minorities, including black peope.

It has everything to do with minorities and whites, equally.

Quote:

Racism is the belief that your skin color/ethnicity are superior to others. Racism breeds discrimination.

Quite an accurate definition which applies equally to whites and minorities since we're all, to one degree or another, rascists.

Quote:

It's white society that needs to change, not blacks or minorities

.

No, it's society as a whole that needs to change.

Quote:

The discussion, therefore, should be: Who should WHITE people listen to in order to enlighten and educate them about the harm they cause when they act out on their false beliefs?

An excellent example of racism.

QUOTE]

MikeT · #29 (**permalink**) 08-10-2007, 12:08 PM

(Forgive my lack of formatting, I'm new to using these message boards.)

"It has everything to do with minorities and whites, equally."

Please show me your research that shows minorities equally discriminate against whites. Please show me your research that when a white person moves into a minority neighborhood, for-sale signs go up out of fear that the white person will bring down their property values. Please show me the research you've done to show that a larger percentage of blacks and minorities enjoy far more pay raises, job promotions or executive positions. Please show me your research that proves that blacks and minorities are largely let "off the hook" by our justice system for committing the same

crimes that white people do. And last: please show me your research that proves that black people and minorities face far less obstacles to education than white people do.

The facts of the matter indicate that there is no such thing as discrimination being "equal" in our white society so your statment that it is equal is false.

"Quite an accurate definition which applies equally to whites and minorities since we're all, to one degree or another, rascists."

"Degree" is the key word here. Minorities don't have enough power to cause harm to white people by any racial beliefs they may have come to due to the discrimination wrought against them. Also, there is little belief that blacks and other minorities--even in their own cultures--that their skin color MAKES them superior to white people.

"No, it's society as a whole that needs to change."

Society as a whole may have reasons to become better, that I can agree with. What I cannot aggree with is that blacks or minorities need to change in order to do away with the racism that white society has cultivated. White society needs to change systemic racism--not blacks or minorities--because only the whites have the power to change themselves. Blacks and minorities didn't create systemic racism, nor do they continue that practice on themselves. To believe so is rather silly, don't you think?

"An excellent example of racism."

I'm not sure what you mean? Do you believe it's racist to point to out racism that factually exists? Do you believe that it's sexist to discuss rapists in the terms of male perpetrators? If not, then why would you think it racist to discuss racism in the terms of discrimination against minorities?

That was a straw-man argument meant to insult, rather than to have sincere dialogue and civil discussion. I would appreciate it if instead of making accusations, you share your position, beliefs and what facts and evidence you have to support them. Let's not make this about the people participating in the discussion--but keep it on topic instead.

Aegis · #30 (**permalink**) 08-10-2007, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeT;61040
[QUOTE

The facts of the matter indicate that there is no such thing as discrimination being "equal" in our white society so your statment that it is equal is false.

You are correct. The amount of discrimination is not equal but my point was that minorities are equally at fault for racism against whites as are whites for racism against minorities.

Quote:

"Degree" is the key word here. Minorities don't have enough power to cause harm to white people by any racial beliefs they may have come to due to the discrimination wrought against them. Also, there is little belief that blacks and other minorities--even in their own cultures--that their skin color MAKES them superior to white people.

Actually anyone can cause harm to another by racism and the degree of harm doesn't alter the underlying effect.

Quote:

What I cannot aggree with is that blacks or minorities need to change in order to do away with the racism that white society has cultivated

Blacks and other minorities need to address their racism against whites just as whites need to address their racism. White society needs to change systemic racism--not blacks or minorities--

Quote:

because only the whites have the power to change themselves. Blacks and minorities didn't create systemic racism, nor do they continue that practice on themselves

.

Blacks and other minorities have to an extent become racist just as whites have. They have as much ability to change their behavior as whites do.

Quote:

I would appreciate it if instead of making accusations, you share your position, beliefs and what facts and evidence you have to support them. Let's not make this about the people participating in the discussion--but keep it on topic instead.[/left][/

QUOTE]

I haven't, so why are you?