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08-10-2007, 04:27 PM
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#61 (permalink)
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Moderator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micfranklin
What I meant by that was when you try and prohibit something from people, like say alcohol (sorry but it just stands out) then people will find other ways to get it, legal or not. There'll be a black market for it.
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OK, my argument withstands the black market counterargument. Let's say that yes, there will be a black market in drugs. By outlawing a drug, we have still performed damage control on the problem. Now it's a problem on the fringes of society and not a problem for most people of the United States.
WEB
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Forum Rule 3: Discuss the Issue, not your opponent.
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08-10-2007, 05:10 PM
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#62 (permalink)
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 517
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Drug prohibition does more to make Americans unsafe than any other factor. Just as alcohol prohibition gave us Al Capone and the mafia, drug prohibition has given us the Crips, the Bloods and drive-by shootings. Consider the historical evidence: America's murder rate rose nearly 70% during alcohol prohibition, but returned to its previous levels after prohibition ended. Now, since the War on Drugs began, America's murder rates have doubled. The cause/effect relationship is clear. Prohibition is putting innocent lives at risk.
What's more, drug prohibition also inflates the cost of drugs, leading users to steal to support their high priced habits. It is estimated that drug addicts commit 25% of all auto thefts, 40% of robberies and assaults, and 50% of burglaries and larcenies. Prohibition puts your property at risk. Finally, nearly one half of all police resources are devoted to stopping drug trafficking, instead of preventing violent crime. The bottom line? By ending drug prohibition Libertarians would double the resources available for crime prevention, and significantly reduce the number of violent criminals at work in your neighborhood.
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08-10-2007, 05:15 PM
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#63 (permalink)
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois
OK, my argument withstands the black market counterargument. Let's say that yes, there will be a black market in drugs. By outlawing a drug, we have still performed damage control on the problem. Now it's a problem on the fringes of society and not a problem for most people of the United States.
WEB
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Innocent people killed in drive-bys are the fringes of society? Honest hardworking people who happen to indulge in an illegal substance responsibly are the fringes of society? |
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08-10-2007, 05:48 PM
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#64 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Libertarian
drug prohibition has given us the Crips, the Bloods and drive-by shootings.
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The formation of these gangs had absolutely nothing to do with drugs... |
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08-10-2007, 05:54 PM
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#65 (permalink)
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Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iTaliAN_ICe
The formation of these gangs had absolutely nothing to do with drugs...
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Yes it did. One of the main reasons people are attracted to gangster lifestyle is because of the massive profits to be made selling drugs. Without drugs, gangs lose much of their appeal because there is no ridiculously massive profits to be made selling them. |
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08-10-2007, 06:52 PM
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#66 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Libertarian
Yes it did. One of the main reasons people are attracted to gangster lifestyle is because of the massive profits to be made selling drugs. Without drugs, gangs lose much of their appeal because there is no ridiculously massive profits to be made selling them.
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As I said, the formation of these gangs had absolutely nothing to do with drugs. |
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08-10-2007, 06:53 PM
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#67 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Libertarian
Innocent people killed in drive-bys are the fringes of society? Honest hardworking people who happen to indulge in an illegal substance responsibly are the fringes of society?
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OK, sure let's place the importance on semantics and word-games. We'll try it your way: most of American society is addicted to illegal drugs. Does that work better for you? 
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Forum Rule 3: Discuss the Issue, not your opponent.
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08-10-2007, 06:56 PM
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#68 (permalink)
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Governor General
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Addictive behavior
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois
How do people get addicted to drugs? They become addicted to drugs because they are able to get a hold of them INITIALLY, right? So if you want to stop drug addiction should you or should you not prevent people from getting drugs initially?
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True, that's the key, not letting people who can be harmed by drugs (addicts and alchoholics) get ahold of them. But the there is the other 90% of the population that can use drugs recreationaly, drugs like alchohol, and whetever, and not be permanently damaged. If the drugs are legal, people will get them. If they are illlegal, addicts will still get them. I don't see how you can prevent initial access to drugs as long as there are smugglers, dealers, and Columbia, Afghanistan, etc.....
What you want sounds great Du Bois....but......
Also, I've been a drug counselor for about 7 years now, I don't know everything but I've had a long time to think about this one.
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“I think every good Christian ought to kick Falwell right in the ass.”-Barry Goldwater
Last edited by Bradgriff; 08-10-2007 at 07:10 PM.
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08-10-2007, 07:03 PM
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#69 (permalink)
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Governor General
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Location: West Sacramento
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodog
Your against prohibition right? Your really selling your argument.
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No, I am neither for nor against prohibition. Mine is a complex opinion based on my experience as a drug and alchohol abuse counselor for the last 7 years.
__________________
“I think every good Christian ought to kick Falwell right in the ass.”-Barry Goldwater
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08-10-2007, 07:26 PM
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#70 (permalink)
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Moderator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Libertarian
Drug prohibition does more to make Americans unsafe than any other factor. Just as alcohol prohibition gave us Al Capone and the mafia, drug prohibition has given us the Crips, the Bloods and drive-by shootings. Consider the historical evidence: America's murder rate rose nearly 70% during alcohol prohibition, but returned to its previous levels after prohibition ended. Now, since the War on Drugs began, America's murder rates have doubled. The cause/effect relationship is clear. Prohibition is putting innocent lives at risk.
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The Bloods and Crips were created in response to violence by whites on blacks in inner cities as well as by the poverty of inner cities. They were not created due to drugs as you claim.
As for Prohibition, American crime rates were already increasing before Prohibition, so your statistics are not as dramatic or clear as you portray them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Libertarian
What's more, drug prohibition also inflates the cost of drugs, leading users to steal to support their high priced habits. It is estimated that drug addicts commit 25% of all auto thefts, 40% of robberies and assaults, and 50% of burglaries and larcenies.
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Thank you for making the case for why drugs should stay illegal. Legal drugs will lead to a new wave of drug addicts robbing and hurting people to feed their addiction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Libertarian
Prohibition puts your property at risk. Finally, nearly one half of all police resources are devoted to stopping drug trafficking, instead of preventing violent crime. The bottom line? By ending drug prohibition Libertarians would double the resources available for crime prevention, and significantly reduce the number of violent criminals at work in your neighborhood.
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Can you show me your source for this statistic?
Also I asked you this before and I don't think you answered. What drugs are you in favor of legalizing?
- weed?
- cocaine?
- crack?
- meth?
- heroin?
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Forum Rule 3: Discuss the Issue, not your opponent.
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