Drug Legalization - Page 6 - Political Forum

superdude17* · 08-10-2007, 01:38 AM

I don't get what is the argument for both sides. Drugs should never be legal, under any circumstance. The US already has leniant enough rules towards them, that if you are caught, and are just doing the drug of choice, you usually end up paying a fine. At the same time, if you are smart, you do it at your house or someone's house you know and trust, and don't get involved in the dealing process.

I don't understand what the argument is for legalizing it. There is no point to it. Overall drug use has gone done considerably, I believe, over the last 2 or 3 years, and people my age don't think it is so cool to go and smoke pot, or snort coke to get high.

This ban is ultimately for your own health and safety.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 08-10-2007, 03:17 AM

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Originally Posted by FRYandBENDER

Well kind of. Who am I to tell people how to live their lives?

Who are you supposed to be to tell people not to ruin themselves? You were just saying a few hours ago that maybe society would be better off without weak-willed people. Now you say "who am I?" to judge other people. Just a few moments ago you were apparently someone to judge other people.

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Originally Posted by FRYandBENDER

To be honest, I would treat it to the point that I can afford to, but when it all boils down to it, I knew what I was doing. I knew that there could be consequences involved. I'll do what I can with the money and insurance I have, but I'll be damned if I'm going to spend other people's money to save my sorry ass or expect other people to feel sorry for me or help me out. My life will end because of choices I made. If meth were legalized and I was somehow dumb enough to get hooked on it, then whatever happens to me is my own fault. I have the choice to try it or not.

Well when you legalize drugs, that's like telling people that drugs are ok, so we become party to sending out the message that drugs are ok, and thus it doesn't seem as dumb to take them. Legalizing drugs makes us part of the problem.

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Originally Posted by FRYandBENDER

Also, I've met people who have been hooked on meth. They have told me that meth heads could give two shits less about us. Hell, extreme drug addicts would rob and kill people to get their fix. I just don't see any reason to waste our time on people like this.

This is a ridiculous argument. You are comparing someone who is ALREADY ADDICTED to a drug to someone who is not. Of course someone who is ALREADY addicted doesn't give a crap about you. The point is to prevent them from BECOMING addicted.

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Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 08-10-2007, 03:47 AM

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Originally Posted by micfranklin

The thing about prohibition is that it creates more incentive for people to do it anyway. You say kiddie porn is prohibited, but look at how many child molesters are running loose now. Same with drugs, they might be illegal but more people are drug dealers now and crime is high because its based around the illegal drug trade.

Face it Prohibition is a waste and never works, it has the opposite effect.

Do you consider jail time to be an incentive for doing something?

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Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 08-10-2007, 03:52 AM

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Originally Posted by Bradgriff

Respectfully....the aspect of addictive behavior you don't seem to be considering is that when an addict ( I.E., the ones who are actualy damaged the most by drugs) wants to get drugs, he or she will get them legal or not. Most addicts are out of control freight trains, they are on a doom curve and WILL need to hit bottom and loose most everything before they get the notion of trying to get help into thier diseased minds. So in other woords we want addicts to suffer catastrophic things and go for help before they are killed by thier illnesses.

So it doesn't matter whether drugs are legal no matter how hard they are, the death count from alchoholism and addiction will be the same at the end of the year. Addiction is an age old consistant. Manufactured/Brewed drugs have been a part of human existance for over 4000 years. Prohibition is an example of a failed attempt to regulate/eliminate. Legalization will change nothing in my opinion. Nothing can be done.

How do people get addicted to drugs? They become addicted to drugs because they are able to get a hold of them INITIALLY, right? So if you want to stop drug addiction should you or should you not prevent people from getting drugs initially?

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micfranklin · 08-10-2007, 08:12 AM

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Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois

Do you consider jail time to be an incentive for doing something?

What I meant by that was when you try and prohibit something from people, like say alcohol (sorry but it just stands out) then people will find other ways to get it, legal or not. There'll be a black market for it.

micfranklin · 08-10-2007, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdude17

I don't get what is the argument for both sides. Drugs should never be legal, under any circumstance. The US already has leniant enough rules towards them, that if you are caught, and are just doing the drug of choice, you usually end up paying a fine. At the same time, if you are smart, you do it at your house or someone's house you know and trust, and don't get involved in the dealing process.

Apparently you also haven't learned from 1920's Prohibition....

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdude17

I don't understand what the argument is for legalizing it. There is no point to it. Overall drug use has gone done considerably, I believe, over the last 2 or 3 years, and people my age don't think it is so cool to go and smoke pot, or snort coke to get high.

1. It's unconstitutional
2. Who cares if there is or isn't a point to it?
3. People will use drugs regardless
4. The fact that people your age don't think it's cool isn't an effective argument.
5. Freedom to choose is always important.
6. Link to overall drug use?

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdude17

This ban is ultimately for your own health and safety.

Now see, that mentality is the same that our government has and it's the biggest crock of shit I've heard.

micfranklin · 08-10-2007, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodog

I don't care if weed is legalized. I said that in this thread. Cocaine, herione, acid etc, that's what I'm worried about.

Just like weed. Try and restrict it and it'll only end in the same results.

FRYandBENDER · 08-10-2007, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdude17*

I don't get what is the argument for both sides. Drugs should never be legal, under any circumstance. The US already has leniant enough rules towards them, that if you are caught, and are just doing the drug of choice, you usually end up paying a fine. At the same time, if you are smart, you do it at your house or someone's house you know and trust, and don't get involved in the dealing process.

I don't understand what the argument is for legalizing it. There is no point to it. Overall drug use has gone done considerably, I believe, over the last 2 or 3 years, and people my age don't think it is so cool to go and smoke pot, or snort coke to get high.

This ban is ultimately for your own health and safety.

You sure you're not a democrat?

FRYandBENDER · 08-10-2007, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois

Who are you supposed to be to tell people not to ruin themselves? You were just saying a few hours ago that maybe society would be better off without weak-willed people. Now you say "who am I?" to judge other people. Just a few moments ago you were apparently someone to judge other people.

This is what I said, post #28:

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Anyways, if someone is stupid enough to get addicted to meth then maybe we'd be better off with out them.

I think we can agree that getting hooked on something as detrimental as meth is pretty fucking stupid. Also, you said this in post #26:

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Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois

No prohibition on alcohol. As for tobacco, just make sure that people who smoke it only kill themselves and not others with their second-hand smoke.

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Which is exactly the line of reasoning I'm applying to all other drugs.

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Well when you legalize drugs, that's like telling people that drugs are ok, so we become party to sending out the message that drugs are ok, and thus it doesn't seem as dumb to take them. Legalizing drugs makes us part of the problem.

This is a ridiculous argument. You are comparing someone who is ALREADY ADDICTED to a drug to someone who is not. Of course someone who is ALREADY addicted doesn't give a crap about you. The point is to prevent them from BECOMING addicted.

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Do we tell people that smoking is OK? Aren't the number of smokers going down?
But that isn't even my big argument. That was just some info I got from people who have been hooked on meth. They don't care about us, why should we care about them? And for the people that are not addicted, same as with any other drug be it tobacco or coke, if they are dumb enough to try it and get hooked, then it is their fault.

Anyways, arguing stuff like this is futile. Like I told Rodog, I don't even have a big hard on for legalizing shit like meth. I just think that if we're going to use the "its my body, my life" argument for abortion, tobacco, and alcohol then why not apply it universally? The only drugs that I would consider holding a sign for is weed and shrooms, maybe acid.s

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 08-10-2007, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRYandBENDER

I think we can agree that getting hooked on something as detrimental as meth is pretty fucking stupid. Also, you said this in post #26:

(1) As I mentioned to you earlier, if we legalize meth, we are saying it is not pretty fucking stupid to take meth, we are saying that meth is just fine, go ahead and take it. If it were so bad, we would have outlawed it.

(2) As for your comparison of it to smoking, meth is far worse. Have a look at this:

Drugs - crystal methamphetamine, tina, crystal meths, krank, tweak, ice

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Side effects: The biggest risk is from the increased chance of HIV infection through unprotected and uninhibited sex while under the influence of meth. The liberating nature of the drug means that often safe sex is discarded while sexual activity increases greatly. It has been reported in the States that in almost half of the new AIDS cases, crystal meth has been a factor.

Smoking ice results in body temperature rises and rapid cardiac and respiratory rates developing as the blood pressure increases. The drug can lead to hallucinations, paranoia, and bizarre, aggressive and psychotic behaviour.

Health risks: The effects and dependence potential of meth are similar to that of amphetamine misuse, although as the stuff is a lot stronger, the dangers involved are greater with an increased chance of overdose.

Overuse can bring on paranoia, short term memory loss, wild rages and mood swings as well as damage to your immune system. As far as we know, it is not physically addictive, although many have quickly developed a very strong psychological and damaging dependence for the drug.

Overdosing can lead to severe convulsions followed by circulatory and respiratory collapse, coma and death. Some people have died after taking small doses.

Increased incidence of AIDS, paranoia, wild rages, and instant death is not something that smoking causes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fry

But that isn't even my big argument. That was just some info I got from people who have been hooked on meth. They don't care about us, why should we care about them?

Still a ridiculous argument for the reasons I mentioned. I fail to see why you repeat it after I already showed its lack of merit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fry

And for the people that are not addicted, same as with any other drug be it tobacco or coke, if they are dumb enough to try it and get hooked, then it is their fault.

We've covered this as well. Your approach to people in a desperate situation is "fuck em". I don't agree with that approach.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fry

Anyways, arguing stuff like this is futile.

Already said that too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fry

Like I told Rodog, I don't even have a big hard on for legalizing shit like meth. I just think that if we're going to use the "its my body, my life" argument for abortion, tobacco, and alcohol then why not apply it universally? The only drugs that I would consider holding a sign for is weed and shrooms, maybe acid.s

I would just say that generally you want society and the quality of human life to be better and not worse. It could possibly involve hypocrisy to keep meth illegal and not booze. However, the hypocrisy of that is overshadowed by the simple fact that a more consistent position would result in more suffering in society and thus it's better for society to maintain an inconsistent position on this issue, if in fact the position is inconsistent.

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