Drug Legalization - Page 4 - Political Forum

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · #31 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by micfranklin

So uh, what about alcohol? Surely drinking too much of that is more deadly than weed would ever be.

Got any proof of that, or do we just go with "surely"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by micfranklin

And it's still Prohibition: it didn't work with alcohol in the 1920's and it won't work now. Some people never learn.

Lots of things are prohibition. Buying fully automatic assault rifles is prohibited. Kiddie porn is prohibited. Bestiality is prohibited. Walking around nude is prohibited. Incest is prohibited. Throwing rats into a meat grinder and selling it is prohibited. Some people think that that because something is prohibited that prohibition of something is always a bad thing. Some people have to learn things the hard way.

WEB

FRYandBENDER · #32 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois

I will not even attempt to argue against your comment because of this. I see no point. We seem to have a fundamental difference in the value we place on the lives of other people. You have a "fuck em" attitude towards weaker people, I do not.
WEB

Well kind of. Who am I to tell people how to live their lives? If someone wants to put a gun in their mouth and blow their brains out who am I to say otherwise? At least if we legalize it we'll have more money to spend on rehab for these people. And it's not like I don't apply this philosophy to myself. Lets say that those years I smoked come back to haunt me. I think it was like 2 or three yrs that I smoked, though I still do occasionally if I'm hammered enough. Anyways, lets say I get lung cancer. To be honest, I would treat it to the point that I can afford to, but when it all boils down to it, I knew what I was doing. I knew that there could be consequences involved. I'll do what I can with the money and insurance I have, but I'll be damned if I'm going to spend other people's money to save my sorry ass or expect other people to feel sorry for me or help me out. My life will end because of choices I made. If meth were legalized and I was somehow dumb enough to get hooked on it, then whatever happens to me is my own fault. I have the choice to try it or not.

Also, I've met people who have been hooked on meth. They have told me that meth heads could give two shits less about us. Hell, extreme drug addicts would rob and kill people to get their fix. I just don't see any reason to waste our time on people like this.

micfranklin · #33 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois

Lots of things are prohibition. Buying fully automatic assault rifles is prohibited. Kiddie porn is prohibited. Bestiality is prohibited. Walking around nude is prohibited. Incest is prohibited. Throwing rats into a meat grinder and selling it is prohibited. Some people think that that because something is prohibited that prohibition of something is always a bad thing. Some people have to learn things the hard way.

The thing about prohibition is that it creates more incentive for people to do it anyway. You say kiddie porn is prohibited, but look at how many child molesters are running loose now. Same with drugs, they might be illegal but more people are drug dealers now and crime is high because its based around the illegal drug trade.

Face it Prohibition is a waste and never works, it has the opposite effect.

micfranklin · #34 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodog

With prostitution you might be able to make that argument, but the same can't be said for drugs. Are you suggesting that making child porn legal would reduce the number of child molesters? Good look trying to make that argument to parents. Are you suggesting that making crack cocaine legal won't increase the addiction rate? Good look making that argument to people who are subject to theivery by addicts who live in cities.

Cities where thievery is common might be because thieves are looking to steal crack. Hence what I said about crime earlier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodog

As you can see from this admittedly old study the number of people who die from tobacco and alcohol which are of course legal far out ways the number of people who die from Opiates and cocaine even though they are far more dangerous. The number of people killed every year is about 10,000 so the violence caused by illegal drugs almost certainly pales in comparison to the deaths that would result from those drugs being legal.

Let me put it like this: would it be better to have people die from drugs or die from a shootout resulting from someone selling drugs? Crime is through the roof because of the War on Drugs, and if it ended crime might go up but then it would come crashing down.

HenryDavidThoreau · #35 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 07:48 PM

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Originally Posted by perdidochas

No, they wouldn't, and they would be replaced with other problems. Alaska experimented with drug decriminalization (similar to the way Amsterdam did) in the late 1970s. They found that abuse of marijuana (i.e. police calls involving stoned people) doubled.

What were the reasons people phoned the police? Unless you can give a source I find this really hard to believe.

micfranklin · #36 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodog

They steal to acquire things to sell or bargin for the drug. Their not going to find crack casually within someone's home. And it doesn't matter whether or not guns are drugs are worse in terms of how they kill people. They both kill and the legal drugs kill many many more people then the violence caused by illegal drugs. Unless you can come up with a statistic that says the number of people dying from drug related illegal activity causes more deaths then the amount who would die from it being legal then there is no logical reason to legalize something like cocaine. Cigerattes kill 400,000 people each year. Something tells me that the number of people who would die if cigerattes were illegal wouldn't even come close to that number.

Statistics are irrelevant. A lot of things legal or no, can kill that many people in a year. Car accidents can be just as deadly. The principle behind it is that people deserve the choice of whether they want to get high or not.

Caine · #37 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 08:33 PM

In W.E.B hypothetical situation joe wouldn't spend less time sell drugs he would spend more time using and buying drugs. Mean while wal-mart and other coproations pick up where joe left off and start selling drugs just as he did. But now they would be more wide spread and cheaper

micfranklin · #38 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodog

Cars fuel the economy. Drugs don't. You expect people to make something legal with no statistics or evidence to suggests the possible outcome?

Everyone knows crack, meth, PCP, heroin, and all those drugs can kill you if you take enough of them. As I've said before this is Prohibition, and no statistic can prove that not only is the War on Drugs Prohibition isn't working but that it's not even constitutional.

But if you want stats, then here's something I found on cocaine:

GDCADA | Cocaine - Statistics, Related Resources & Links

Bradgriff · #39 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois

Well I'm just going to universally disagree with you that people should be abandoned to their own human folly. I find it disgusting to just make available to people things which would destroy them.

Respectfully....the aspect of addictive behavior you don't seem to be considering is that when an addict ( I.E., the ones who are actualy damaged the most by drugs) wants to get drugs, he or she will get them legal or not. Most addicts are out of control freight trains, they are on a doom curve and WILL need to hit bottom and loose most everything before they get the notion of trying to get help into thier diseased minds. So in other woords we want addicts to suffer catastrophic things and go for help before they are killed by thier illnesses.

So it doesn't matter whether drugs are legal no matter how hard they are, the death count from alchoholism and addiction will be the same at the end of the year. Addiction is an age old consistant. Manufactured/Brewed drugs have been a part of human existance for over 4000 years. Prohibition is an example of a failed attempt to regulate/eliminate. Legalization will change nothing in my opinion. Nothing can be done.

FRYandBENDER · #40 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodog

Cars fuel the economy. Drugs don't. You expect people to make something legal with no statistics or evidence to suggests the possible outcome?

Tell that to Miami, FL.