Country Reputation - Page 4 - Political Forum

writerman · #31 (**permalink**) 06-29-2007, 03:38 PM

that has nothing to do directly with Islam, any more than the fact that the West was Christian has much to do with Da Vinci or Newton. And the impact of knowledge preserved by the East, while important, has had much less impact on the progress of Western Civilization (especially technological progress) than the contributions of those poor benighted inhabitants of the Middle Ages in Europe who, being short of manpower, were forced by necessity to invent and improve machines that laid the foundation for the modern industrial world.

There are some things, despite a commitment to freedom, that you just don't tolerate. It's not legal today, as I understand it, to be a nazi in Germany. In my opinion, Islam is just as great an evil posing as a religion. It is the penultimate enemy of the values and culture of Western Civilization. If you remember, there's a phrase in the Bible "By their fruits, ye shall know them." I'm judging Islam by its fruits--violence, ignorance, intolerance, oppression of women. If I had my way, Islam would be similarly (and unquely) banned in the United States the way Naziism has (IMO sensibly) been banned in Germany.

As for what Christians did in Spain, read the following posting on the often-disparaged Crusades. It shows them for what they were--a purely defensive reaction to Islam conquering fully 2/3 of the formerly Christian world by fire and sword by the armies of Islam. It was resist or perish. But for 'ignorant barbarian fanatics' like Godfrey of Bouillon, Robert of Normandy, and Raymond of Toulouse, there would be no Europe as we know it today.

The Real History of the Crusades

baxter · #32 (**permalink**) 06-29-2007, 07:03 PM

Quote:

But may I see the numbers that show that your amount of aid blows up the EU aid alltogether (in Dollars)?

...to criticize the US when the actual dollar amount we give blows your collective dollar amount out of the water.

Am I not seeing the same numbers as everyone else? France and the UK make up approximately the amount of US$ the US gives in aid. This is for a combined population of about 115 million people, compared to 300 million people in the US.

Quote:

And who exactly decided that percent of GNI is "the thing to look at?"

I was just showing that Europe is much more generous that the US is interms of aid. You need to look at the GNI to see how much it represents for a country. Imagine a poor person who gives 25$ to a charity, and a hugely rich person who gives 25$, the poor one is being more generous being as it represents a larger percentage of his income.

Tim · #33 (**permalink**) 06-29-2007, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baxter

What is your opinion on which countries have a good or bad influence and why?

It is interesting that the U.S is so far down (I would put it further down) and I was wondering, being as most of the people here are Americans and Republicans, how you felt about that? As well as how you felt about the terrible reputation Israel has (I agree with it's placement), being as the U.S is so pro-Israel.

(I wanted to put a poll on this but don't know how, could someone please explain the process in the "Forum Rules" section. Thanks)

How do I feel? Well, you must realize that these polls telling us how evil we are have been running constantly for several years. I would say: people need someone to hate. It is currently trendy to hate Americans. I would say that this sort of prejudice and bogotry is foolish and dangerous. But prejudice is not something that can be addressed in a rational manner.

In addition, I would ask what, exactly, the poll means? How does Canada's positive impact manifest itself? I mean specifically?

Of course, the really interesting question is: why did you run the poll? What is your point?

FRYandBENDER · #34 (**permalink**) 06-29-2007, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baxter

Am I not seeing the same numbers as everyone else? France and the UK make up approximately the amount of US$ the US gives in aid. This is for a combined population of about 115 million people, compared to 300 million people in the US.

I was just showing that Europe is much more generous that the US is interms of aid. You need to look at the GNI to see how much it represents for a country. Imagine a poor person who gives 25$ to a charity, and a hugely rich person who gives 25$, the poor one is being more generous being as it represents a larger percentage of his income.

But who the hell says that the rich person has to give jack shit to anyone? Much less the poor person. How the hell can you criticize someone for GIVING anything to anyone. Its not like we owe this money to anyone, we're GIVING it away. What kind of ass hole takes money from someone and then bitches about how much they were given?

FRYandBENDER · #35 (**permalink**) 06-29-2007, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

I had this aid spending discussion already so often. I really would have liked not to warm it up again.

But may I see the numbers that show that your amount of aid blows up the EU aid alltogether (in Dollars)?

You ask why the economic potence of a country is considered as basis? Is that so hard to find out? The more powerfull your economy is the easier you can spend some aid.

Well I did throw in the "assuming these numbers are correct" to cover my ass. This guy and I are not debating the actual numbers at this point, but more of the "how you measure generosity" aspect. He says that if someone gives a gabillion dollars and they make a million gabillion dollars a year, they are not really being generous.

Slartibartfas · #36 (**permalink**) 06-30-2007, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRYandBENDER

Well I did throw in the "assuming these numbers are correct" to cover my ass. This guy and I are not debating the actual numbers at this point, but more of the "how you measure generosity" aspect. He says that if someone gives a gabillion dollars and they make a million gabillion dollars a year, they are not really being generous.

ok.

But actually I think there is a true core behind this argument. If you have much its easier to give, isnt it? If a multibillionair buys you a burger because you look hungry, it will be considered to be a nice act, but if a beddlar gets all his money together to do so, it will be considered considerably more generous.

That was an extreme example, but it shows the direction.

africanhope · #37 (**permalink**) 06-30-2007, 04:55 AM

I find myself wondering why aid became the focus of the debate on whoch country is having the best effect in the world. There is so much more than just aid. There is forgeing policy. There is peacekeeping (here Canada is indeed making a very contribution), and intervention (I do not necesarily mean military intervention). And to be honest, looking at the countries in this poll, all fall a bit short, except maybe Canada.

Why do I say so, well, let's go through the list:
The EU talks the talk, but does not walk the walk. It critizeses Zimbabwe and Sudan, but still trades with these countries. Also, EU protectionism is making aid inefective as it does not allow the developing world to compete fairly.
US. George Bush's forgeign policy did the US image a lot of damage. Also, it SEEMS that the US tends to think that military intervention is the only form of intervention. Also, the same as the EU on portectionism.
Canada - Good and fair forgeign policy, but not a very powerfull country, so does not carry a lot of weight
Japan - I can't comment - I have not heard the Japanese even once comment on issues concerning Africa.
China - Witnessing the new Eastern 'Scramble for Africa' and the fact that the Chinese do not care who they trade with, the should score very low
India would obviously not give much to aid, as they still do struggle with poverty. They do play an active role and is a loud voice for the Developing World. Yet, I wouldscorethem low because of their nuce arm race with Pakistan
Is Russia and Iran really on the list? I mean come on!
Israel. Uhm I would also say they score low, but this is always a hot and emotional topic.
France - I love the country, lived there a bit. But.... I find their forgeign policy to be a bit hypocrytical. They act as the great defender of the Developing World, but are the greatest defendend of protectionism. They tlk peace, but their armies are to be found all over Africa, not always for good reasons. And there is always Rwanda, where France's role was shamefull. But they do a lot for development (not only giving money) even in non-Francophone countries.

Based on this, I would also score Canada the highest.

AH

Slartibartfas · #38 (**permalink**) 06-30-2007, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by africanhope

I find myself wondering why aid became the focus of the debate on whoch country is having the best effect in the world. There is so much more than just aid. There is forgeing policy. There is peacekeeping (here Canada is indeed making a very contribution), and intervention (I do not necesarily mean military intervention). And to be honest, looking at the countries in this poll, all fall a bit short, except maybe Canada.

Why do I say so, well, let's go through the list:
The EU talks the talk, but does not walk the walk. It critizeses Zimbabwe and Sudan, but still trades with these countries. Also, EU protectionism is making aid inefective as it does not allow the developing world to compete fairly.
US. George Bush's forgeign policy did the US image a lot of damage. Also, it SEEMS that the US tends to think that military intervention is the only form of intervention. Also, the same as the EU on portectionism.
Canada - Good and fair forgeign policy, but not a very powerfull country, so does not carry a lot of weight
Japan - I can't comment - I have not heard the Japanese even once comment on issues concerning Africa.
China - Witnessing the new Eastern 'Scramble for Africa' and the fact that the Chinese do not care who they trade with, the should score very low
India would obviously not give much to aid, as they still do struggle with poverty. They do play an active role and is a loud voice for the Developing World. Yet, I wouldscorethem low because of their nuce arm race with Pakistan
Is Russia and Iran really on the list? I mean come on!
Israel. Uhm I would also say they score low, but this is always a hot and emotional topic.
France - I love the country, lived there a bit. But.... I find their forgeign policy to be a bit hypocrytical. They act as the great defender of the Developing World, but are the greatest defendend of protectionism. They tlk peace, but their armies are to be found all over Africa, not always for good reasons. And there is always Rwanda, where France's role was shamefull. But they do a lot for development (not only giving money) even in non-Francophone countries.

Based on this, I would also score Canada the highest.

AH

Good post.

But just out of curiosity, does Canada further no protectionist policies at all?

africanhope · #39 (**permalink**) 06-30-2007, 08:01 AM

To be honest, I do not know! I do not think Canada is a huge trading partner (or even potential partner) for African countries, unlike the EU and US. But I would guess that they are protectionist aswell

AH

baxter · #40 (**permalink**) 06-30-2007, 09:03 AM

Quote:

But who the hell says that the rich person has to give jack shit to anyone? Much less the poor person. How the hell can you criticize someone for GIVING anything to anyone. Its not like we owe this money to anyone, we're GIVING it away. What kind of ass hole takes money from someone and then bitches about how much they were given?

Well I believe that it is the duty of rich developed countries to aid the poorer ones. I don't think that we should have the philosophy of thinking about getting our own country (if it is developed) richer than the others. I believe that we should not think of ourselves as only citizen of a country but citizens of the world and that our goal should be for global equality, without some people starving because some guy in the US or Europe want to feed himself until obesity. I believe that we should all think in terms of making the world a better place and not, just our own country, and help those who are in need, no matter what country they are in.