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Old 05-31-2007, 12:53 PM   #1 (permalink)
Lord of entropy
 
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Don't teach the Bible in public schools

Don't teach the Bible in public schools

Ruddy

Christopher Ruddy, editor in chief

NewsMax magazine, May, 2007, pg. 90

my comments in red

Time magazine created a stir with its recent cover story entitled "Why we should teach the Bible in public school." Times seemingly unusual stance recieved a great deal of attention - and some significant applause from conservative christians.

This controversial proposal is not a wise one, however.

Times senior religion writer David Van Biema asserts that the Bible so pervades western culture that it is hard to consider anyone educated who doesn't have at least a passing familiarity with its key passages. And as for the church-state issue, he maintains that teaching the Bible in schools is an object of study rather than God's recieved word is constitutional.

On the face of it, all of this sounds good. But there are dangers lurking whenever government gets involved in religion. There is a growing tendency for religious groups to embrace government-sponsored religious activities. Furthermore, President Bush has embraced "faith-based initiatives."

Lets go back to the Bible in the classroom issue. Would you want public school teachers interpreting the Bible for your kids ? In some schools, teachers may promote the Bible because they are believing christians. In other schools teachers with a secular humanist bent will undermine its legitimacy. The best places for faith to be taught to kids are homes, churches and private schools.

In a similar vein, I would oppose many so-called faith-based initiatives, especially ones which link public funding with religious practice.

The White House office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives was established by president Bush through an executive order in 2001. It seeks to strengthen faith based and community organizations. These faith-based organizations (FBO's) are thus allowed to compete for government contracts to deliver services regardless of their religious affiliation. In fiscal 2005, more than $ 2.1 billion in social service grants were awarded to faith-based entities.

Already, regulations were imposed on FBO's to make sure they would pass constitutional muster in the courts. As it happens, the Bush administration is taking a laissez faire approach to these faith-based groups and reportedly few federal agencies are actively monitoring FBO's as to their compliance with federal guidelines, according to a 2006 Government Accountability Office report. And a former director of the White House office, Jim Towey, admitted in 2004 that no direct federal grants from the program had gone to a non-christian religious group. Would christians like it when federal funds go to Islamic groups, or Jewish groups ?

While it is true many FBO's have done wonderful work with the funds they recieve, there's the danger that religious organizations could become so dependant on federal funds that they lose their independance.

Already Catholic-backed organizations have seen their government funding imperiled because their faith opposes abortion, contraception and gay adoption.

One of the greatnesses of America has been our independant and seperate religious establishment. In Americas great democratic experiment, we chose a different course than most of Europe where faith has become largely an institution of the state.

America has been far more stable than its European counterparts for over 200 years. One reason, I believe, is that religious groups in America act as check against the power of the state.

If they ARE "the state", then there's no check against the states power.

History readily teaches us the perils societies face when church and state become too intertwined. It was, to cite one example, the church-sanctioned "divine right of kings" precept that legitimized hereditary aristocracy and led to the likes of Louis XV. The intolerant radical Islamic regimes of today are another example.

As envisioned by the framers of the constitution, the government should be unencumbered by concerns about religion. But likewise, religion should be free from the concerns of government.

As much as NewsMax is hated by liberals, I thought that this writing from NewsMaxs editor in chief might show ONE bit of common ground between liberals and conservatives. ........the government should be unencumbered by concerns about religion. But likewise, religion should be free from the concerns of government.
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Old 06-17-2007, 11:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
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No comments on this ?

Does no one find the source of this writing surprising ?
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Old 06-19-2007, 02:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
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MY comments in black.

I like this part the most - makes the most sense:

Lets go back to the Bible in the classroom issue. Would you want public school teachers interpreting the Bible for your kids ? In some schools, teachers may promote the Bible because they are believing christians. In other schools teachers with a secular humanist bent will undermine its legitimacy. The best places for faith to be taught to kids are homes, churches and private schools.


Well said. You wanna teach your kids about Jesus? You wanna teach them from the Tao Te Ching? You wanna teach them nothing about religion at all? That is all a parents choice. This kind of thing has no place in public school.

America has been far more stable than its European counterparts for over 200 years. One reason, I believe, is that religious groups in America act as check against the power of the state.

I especially like your comment about "who's going to check against THEM"?

This is a good piece.
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Old 06-19-2007, 03:01 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Wow, saw something else that is very true.

History readily teaches us the perils societies face when church and state become too intertwined. It was, to cite one example, the church-sanctioned "divine right of kings" precept that legitimized hereditary aristocracy and led to the likes of Louis XV. The intolerant radical Islamic regimes of today are another example.
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Old 06-19-2007, 03:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
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BTW, what is the deal about NewsMax? I don't know a lot about the different sources and who they represent. I just get the news where I can. Are they reputed to be a right-wing news source?
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:16 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Times senior religion writer David Van Biema asserts that the Bible so pervades western culture that it is hard to consider anyone educated who doesn't have at least a passing familiarity with its key passages. And as for the church-state issue, he maintains that teaching the Bible in schools is an object of study rather than God's recieved word is constitutional.
I have to agree with this. There are so many biblical allusions in not only everyday speech, but in classical literature, that teaching the Bible as literature can be justified. However, it would be very hard for some to teach it this way......
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Old 06-19-2007, 05:02 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I can only say how the question is handled where I live.

We have religion classes in public schools. Those teachers are payed by the state, but belong to the church. Religion classes are completely voluntarily, you have already to declare (thats quite easy) that you dont want to attend and not the other way round.

Islam is handled the same way as Christianity, ie Muslims have the same voluntarely possibility to attend religion classes, in their case Islamic religion classes. (in public schools) Currently there was introduced the first Muslim theological branch of the Viennese university as well. That means the Muslim religion teachers can learn the job within Austria and don't need to go to foreign countries anymore to study Muslim theology.

I think its a really fair concept and it works quite well.
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Old 06-19-2007, 05:43 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I never understand all the fuss about this issue. For decades religious faith was acknowledged as a significant part of American life; not every one shared it, but it is part of our collective heritage and the foundations of the country.

Now there is so much hyesteria about it. Religious belief and the spiritual life are not the enemy. The "freedom of religion" has been reinterpreted in the most radical way possible, as the "right" to destroy all aspects of religious faith in public life.

Why? All this hysterical "sensitivity" on the part of the far left is so absurd. So much self-righteousness and self-pity.

Who has time for that sort of extreme self-absorption in real life? Someone says a prayer and a "sensitive" atheist has to run to a lawyer because it's just all too much....What world do they live in? Why are hurt feelings the basis for law?

I lived for several years in a small town on the coast of Massachusetts, near Boston, where the annual Christmas pageant was destroyed because of the "hurt feelings" of a hyper-sensitive atheist who apparently couldn't bear the idea that something was taking place in his town that was not entirely secular and threatened to bankrupt the town with a lawsuit. A tradition that involved the whole town - of all faiths - for months every year in preparation was destroyed by the narcissism, callousness, selfishness and arrogance of one man. The irony is that this was Massachusetts, and the town was - and is - very far left politically.

Life is much easier today in many ways, but it seems our ancestors did have a level of tolerance and common sense and mutual respect that has been lost.

BTW - What the heck is Newsmax? I have never heard of it.
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Old 06-19-2007, 06:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emptypepsi View Post
BTW, what is the deal about NewsMax? I don't know a lot about the different sources and who they represent. I just get the news where I can. Are they reputed to be a right-wing news source?
Oh jeez you didn't know that ?

Quote a newsmax peice to a liberal (remember liberal lil ?) and watch the head spin and the teeth turn to fangs

That's why I thought this writing from their editor in chief would be interesting. Of course they'll ignore it and bury it over ... well, you know where, so I didn't even bother putting it there I don't think. If I DID it's been long buried.
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Old 06-19-2007, 06:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim View Post
I never understand all the fuss about this issue. For decades religious faith was acknowledged as a significant part of American life; not every one shared it, but it is part of our collective heritage and the foundations of the country.

Now there is so much hyesteria about it. Religious belief and the spiritual life are not the enemy. The "freedom of religion" has been reinterpreted in the most radical way possible, as the "right" to destroy all aspects of religious faith in public life.
Yeah, we're busy carelessly re-interpreting and redefining MANY things. Under the assumption(s) that they're "good ideas"
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