Ceci

Besides your response being a personal attack, I've decided to answer you:

1)

Is that substantial enough for you?

2)Since you aren't satisfied with what I've said, please feel free to start your own thread that celebrates your rhetoric. I'm sure that from the majority of people who agree with you, you will get a lot of persons to discuss your feelings with.

There, you can air out your feelings and leave me alone so that I can discuss this issue with open-minded, empathetic and compassionate people who aren't afraid of racial identity.

Thank you.

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Ceci

Mr. Admin,

Thank you for your intervention. I appreciate it so much. But, there is one tiny thing:

I'm a lady.

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Sgt. Bilko

What a frickin' joke. You all need to grow up and act like adults instead of little children.

Ygorl

Alrighty then. I'm happy you got to vent YOUR spleen. Myself, I have no reason to VENT anything or "discuss my feelings" on.

This is, for the most part a non-issue.

That there will ALWAYS be those (like yourself) who would have us beleive that we need to understand the gravity of social disparity and race in America.

You're taking what has become an almost extinct phenomenon and attempting to expand and blow it WAY up.

I have no interest in this. It's pointless.

That's not a "personal insult". That's the way I SEE it :-)

Ceci

If this is true, why are you here? There are a plethora of subjects on this board that you can care about and post. It would be much better if you express yourself there than waste your time here.


Again, why are you posting on this thread if you think this way? Race is a non issue in your point of view. If it is, don't bother to post in this thread and leave me alone.

It's simple.

Then, why are you posting in a thread that you have no interest in?

I beg to differ. The words expressed about blacks " having victimhood" and "blaming the white man" as well as some whites "believing race being a non-issue" is very much a disguised insult based on feelings of inadequacy in terms of racial identity, resentment, lack of empathy and narcissism. In race-related talks, it's a very common retort from white people like yourself along these lines. Linguistically, the reasons why white people respond like this need to be studied more.

Dismissal of feelings belonging to the person of color is quite common for white people who have to vent their spleen. It's their only way to find power in the face of discourse that subjugates their feelings, thoughts and socialized norms. The only way to stop the shame is to lash back and assert that their discourse (i.e. "the script") is more powerful than any other narrative that a person of color could produce. It's understandable in a research-type basis, but a damn shame.

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writerman

as "civil rights leaders" like Sharpton and Jackson are setting the parameters of the discussion. If such a dialogue is to be fruitful, everything--everything!--has to be on the table, not just how terrible whitey is. Blacks in this country need to stop listening to self-serving demagogues and take a long hard look at themselves and begin to do something about the stinking cesspool too much of black "culture" has become by asking how we got from Jackie Robinson, the Tuskegee Airmen, Count Basie, Ella Fitzgerald, and Mahalia Jackson to scumbags like Barry Bonds, Ron Artest, Terrell Owens, and the filth that black "artists" are poisoning both black and white kids with today.

Not to suggest that whites don't have plenty of introspection to do themselves. Nothing could be further from the truth. But unless both sides are willing to look critically at themselves, the divide will continue and nothing worthwhile will be accomplished.

Ceci

Be safe to know that they didn't start this thread. Nor, have they, verbatim, posted in this thread (as far as we know). However, I hope that the white male posters who have brought up Revs. Sharpton and Jackson repeatedly remember this.

I agree. But the only ones thinking how terrible "whitey is" are the white posters who have brought this up again and again. I would suggest that the derogatory terms about white folk stop just as I would say for the derogatory terms of any racial group should stop.

I have never written how terrible white people are. I am only discussing the way some white people have reacted in race-related discussions. If there is shame to be felt, it should be by those who have acted dishonorably and pretentiously in this thread.

I don't think that white people are terrible. I think that there are problems that need to be discussed in order to faciliate better communication between white people and non-white people. And there is a large problem when some white people use "the script" as a form of response instead of really discussing the issues and listening.

I've stopped listening to the countless white posters who have said this advice instead of discussing issues about race.

I've taken a hard look at how white posters behave during race-related talks and read the literature studying their behavior.

I've also taken a hard look at how non-white people have to deal with unending and repetitive attacks from white people venting their personal feelings about us.

I guess that's a start.

Black people aren't sheep. We have minds of our own. And it is an insult for people to continually say this piece of psuedo-advice repetitiously.

As for Black folks taking a look at themselves, have you read Tavis Smiley's The Covenant and The Covenant in Action?

No. Probably not.


I guess you neglected to recognize that Winston and Brandon Marcellus, Maya Angelou, Nikki Giovanni, Toni Morrison, Omar Tyree, Dorothy Height, John Conyers, John Lewis and other countless luminaries are still among us and are highly recognized by the Black Community as well as the world.

But, I defer to you. Continue to educate us Black folk who we should look up to.

Now, this is the best thing you've written. Thank you for finally hitting the nail on the head instead of fingerwagging some more.

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emptypepsi

writerman is right, but people in general (blacks, whites, asians, etc. included) need to take a look at what the hell they are doing. Our hedonictic society needs to reform itself from self-indulgence of trash and material things into a more thinking society. Blacks are guilty of it, but so are whites and every other group of people. It is Americans as a whole.

No, I don't think many people are thinking for themselves because many people do not know how to think independently and for themselves - they just know what they have been told to think. I'm not saying the intellect isn't there for this to be changed, but that should be our goal. To me, THAT is the biggest danger to our society.

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emptypepsi

Don't mean to butt in, but I actually read this book and only finished it a mere few months ago.

It is praise worthy that the book identifies actions that various parties (the community, individual, and elected officials) should take. I agree if the parties pursued the actions outlined, there will be some improvement, but the greatest issues lies in the African American's perspective of this society. Bill Cosby makes a point: parents are not parenting; role models are athletes and entertainers, and only a few of African American children have the drive to dream to be anything beyond that of their parents (however, I see many of these same problems among the Hispanic community as well). The impact of the book would be greater if its aimed to refocus the community.

However, this book concentrates on externalities to African-Americans, and I personally think it would have been more persuasive to many if "The Covenant" focused on what blacks can do for themselves. Instead of academics writing the majority of this book, what about a chapter on ethics by Bill Cosby, or a section on job creation by J.C. Watts? Diversity should be shown not only in ethnicity, but also political viewpoints.

This is not to say that "The Covenant" does not bring up good points. One of the highlights of this book is the short chapter on our country's failing war against drugs. It has done nothing, and giving mandatory time to a person caught with less then 5 grams of crack cocaine in his pocket is embarrassing to law enforcement and the community. However, the solution to this problem is long and complex, and the problem cannot be solved by writing that `we must hold elected leaders responsible.'

All in all, I found important points raised, but the solutions pale in some areas (esp. in regards to education). There is also "group think" taking place sometimes, as if these particular problems and solutions are representative of all black culture and lifestyles. I also reccomend to the person you referred this to reading such authors as Thomas Sowell, John McWhoter and Shelby Steele as well, so that one can have that much more of a broad perspective on this (at least, to anyone having not read them).

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Ygorl

Very well said. I'm in 100 % agreement.