The American Flag: What does it stand for? - Political Forum

Troianii · 01-23-2007, 05:39 PM

What does the American flag stand for? Of course, most of us see that it stands for freedom, the Republic, the Union, et cetera et cetera, but what symbolism can we actually find IN the flag? In other words, what symbolism could you find that is represented BY the stars and stripes.

Troianii · 01-23-2007, 05:40 PM

I will give mine, but I'd rather hear what others have to say first.

Brother Oz · 01-23-2007, 07:10 PM

Quote:

In other words, what symbolism could you find that is represented BY the stars and stripes.

What exactly do you mean? Do you mean what is the symbolism intended for the symbols, which I presume is the states of America? Or something more.
Symbolism is whatever you think it is. If you think that the fact the flag is rectangle-shaped stands for democracy, then it does.

Troianii · 01-23-2007, 10:02 PM

Well, we have a stripe for each colony and a star for each state - that's not what I'm looking for.

Examples of what I am looking for I things like the hammer and sickle, which meant agriculture and industry. Things like many Muslim countries, which have the symbol of their religion in their flag.

While I think that many modern European flags are dull, I'm sure that there are reasons why Germany has Red, Yellow and Black, why France has Red, White and Blue. Those aren't just random colors, they are there for a reason. We could guess and suggest why (someone probably knows, or could find out), but I'm looking for *why* we would have stars and stripes.

CHUQ · 01-24-2007, 06:42 AM

This smells like a set up--yes, it is rectangle, yes it is red white and blue. Does it stand for democracy? A personal opinion. I guess to answer that question would depend on who is answering. To my grandfather, it was a symbol of treachery and death; he was an Apache who helped track down Geronimo in Mexico. So I guess if you are a super-patriot it is all that and a bag of Doritos. To others it is a piece of cloth.

This could go on and on..........

FRYandBENDER · 01-24-2007, 11:37 AM

Are you wanting to know what it means to us personally, or what we think it should mean to Americans (like a standard criteria) or what is was supposed to mean when it was created (colors, etc.) ?

Izzibeth · 01-24-2007, 01:46 PM

To me.. the American flag stands for: A star for each state and stripe for each colony. That's it. It could change tomorrow and it wouldn't effect me either way.

Slartibartfas · 01-24-2007, 03:03 PM

I as a foreigner, see it quite like Izzibeth. The rest of interpretations into the flag are more dependent on the current vogue, than on some theoratical concept.

But if you dont bother, because Trojani mentioned European flags, I can tell you what legend is behind the Austrian flag. (red/white/red)

It dates back to the age of crusades, when the ruler of Austria went together with the King of England and others to the holy land. Those fights very bloody and after it, as the enemy was beaten, the Austrian ruler laid of his armament and and also his belt. And thats what the story tell us, the shirt he wore, that was full of blood except where the belt was. It was red-white-red.

Bloody legend, eye?

Not to start with how politically incorrect it is...

Germany has a newer flag. The different colours have certain meanings and connected to specific virtures. I forgot which exactly. But it was from the very beginning on a sign for the democratic movement.

There is btw also a second flag waving from the official states buildings apart from the Austrian flags here in Vienna. The second one is the EU flag. 12 yellow stars on blue ground. There are some theories about it, some saying its a hidden reference to christianity (12 stars like mother marry). But the official version is, that 12 stars simply are representing the number for perfection, completeness. The blue is very common for international organisations, it stands for peace and cooperation.
I like the EU hymne btw. You probably know it. Its from Beethovens 9ths symphony, the "ode to the joy"

FRYandBENDER · 01-24-2007, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

But if you dont bother, because Trojani mentioned European flags, I can tell you what legend is behind the Austrian flag. (red/white/red)

It dates back to the age of crusades, when the ruler of Austria went together with the King of England and others to the holy land. Those fights very bloody and after it, as the enemy was beaten, the Austrian ruler laid of his armament and and also his belt. And thats what the story tell us, the shirt he wore, that was full of blood except where the belt was. It was red-white-red.

Bloody legend, eye?

Not to start with how politically incorrect it is...

Kick ass. Screw being politically correct. I think you should be proud that your countrymen were ready, willing, and able to kick ass in a time when kicking ass was a way of life.

This guy knows what I'm talking about.

Quote:

Germany has a newer flag. The different colours have certain meanings and connected to specific virtures. I forgot which exactly. But it was from the very beginning on a sign for the democratic movement.

There is btw also a second flag waving from the official states buildings apart from the Austrian flags here in Vienna. The second one is the EU flag. 12 yellow stars on blue ground. There are some theories about it, some saying its a hidden reference to christianity (12 stars like mother marry). But the official version is, that 12 stars simply are representing the number for perfection, completeness. The blue is very common for international organisations, it stands for peace and cooperation.
I like the EU hymne btw. You probably know it. Its from Beethovens 9ths symphony, the "ode to the joy"

That is pretty strange. I never would have guessed anything like that..... I know it is a theory, but still. I would never have pegged the EU as an organization concerned with religion, christianity at least.

Slartibartfas · 01-24-2007, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRYandBENDER

Kick ass. Screw being politically correct. I think you should be proud that your countrymen were ready, willing, and able to kick ass in a time when kicking ass was a way of life.

This guy knows what I'm talking about.

Well, the crusades are definitely something no one could be proud of. It was just a summary of rapes, murders and devestations. And not only Muslims were the victims. In the Byzantine empire, the crusaders did the same. Burning down the churches of their very own believe in the name of the very same god...

Quote:

That is pretty strange. I never would have guessed anything like that..... I know it is a theory, but still. I would never have pegged the EU as an organization concerned with religion, christianity at least.

It seems many proponents of pan Europeanism back then were strong christians. The flag the EU uses today, is not its own invention but taken from another, older European organisation. The "Council of Europe". (This organisation still exists and is best known for running the European court of Human Rights. It has principally nothing to do with the EU).

They were looking for symbols that all Europeans had in common. And looking at symbols christianity was not that unlogical somehow. Turkey however opposed any flag carrying a cross. And so, thats what legends say, those groups that did not want to give up the connection to christianity, changed strategies. They suceeded in bringing through a not so obvious sign of christianity as European flag.

"After that there appeared a great sign in heaven: a woman robed with the sun, beneath her feet the moon, and on her head a crown of twelve stars." Revelation 12,1

Its not only said that in the dome of Strasbourg (the heart of the beginning European unification back than) there exists a stained window where the 12 stars on blue ground look very much like the European flag.
But the most interesting argument might be another one. The flag has been confirmed by the council of Europe on the 8th decembre. The official celebration day of the "Immaculate Conception" of marry.

However, the officials made it very clear that they do not support these legends. And say they are wrong. Its really funny. The European flag is a rather new conception but already now we have legends ranking around it.