The American Flag: What does it stand for? - Page 2 - Political Forum

FRYandBENDER · 01-24-2007, 05:49 PM

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Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

Well, the crusades are definitely something no one could be proud of. It was just a summary of rapes, murders and devestations. And not only Muslims were the victims. In the Byzantine empire, the crusaders did the same. Burning down the churches of their very own believe in the name of the very same god...

Yeah, I know man, I was just having a little fun. I still think the story is cool anyways.

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It seems many proponents of pan Europeanism back then were strong christians. The flag the EU uses today, is not its own invention but taken from another, older European organisation. The "Council of Europe". (This organisation still exists and is best known for running the European court of Human Rights. It has principally nothing to do with the EU).

They were looking for symbols that all Europeans had in common. And looking at symbols christianity was not that unlogical somehow. Turkey however opposed any flag carrying a cross. And so, thats what legends say, those groups that did not want to give up the connection to christianity, changed strategies. They suceeded in bringing through a not so obvious sign of christianity as European flag.

"After that there appeared a great sign in heaven: a woman robed with the sun, beneath her feet the moon, and on her head a crown of twelve stars." Revelation 12,1

Its not only said that in the dome of Strasbourg (the heart of the beginning European unification back than) there exists a stained window where the 12 stars on blue ground look very much like the European flag.
But the most interesting argument might be another one. The flag has been confirmed by the council of Europe on the 8th decembre. The official celebration day of the "Immaculate Conception" of marry.

However, the officials made it very clear that they do not support these legends. And say they are wrong. Its really funny. The European flag is a rather new conception but already now we have legends ranking around it.

I might start looking that up a little, it sounds pretty interesting.

Slartibartfas · 01-24-2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRYandBENDER

Yeah, I know man, I was just having a little fun. I still think the story is cool anyways.

I think also that the story of how our flag came into existance is cool. Even though its most likely not true. Another point it has in common with most flags-legends

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I might start looking that up a little, it sounds pretty interesting.

Cool I steered your interest

PS:
Because we are at those symbols issue on this thread.
Did you ever hear the Marseillaise? (the french national hymne)
Its pure madness, for sure the bloodiest hymne in the whole world. It would fit perfectly a massmurder, but a nation? But what shall you do. One can not abolish a holy national symbol like this one. No wonder, after all it was originally the "Marching Song of the Rhine Army". And it also sounds like it.

Quote:

...
To arms, citizens!
Form your battalions!
Let us march, let us march!
May impure blood
Soak our fields' furrows!
...

FRYandBENDER · 01-24-2007, 07:49 PM

Wow, I'm pretty surprised they haven't changed it yet. I wonder what a new French anthem would sound like.

Thane...... do you think it you're up to it?

george.d · 01-24-2007, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

I think also that the story of how our flag came into existance is cool. Even though its most likely not true. Another point it has in common with most flags-legends

Cool I steered your interest

PS:
Because we are at those symbols issue on this thread.
Did you ever hear the Marseillaise? (the french national hymne)
Its pure madness, for sure the bloodiest hymne in the whole world. It would fit perfectly a massmurder, but a nation? But what shall you do. One can not abolish a holy national symbol like this one. No wonder, after all it was originally the "Marching Song of the Rhine Army". And it also sounds like it.

Revenge on the Hapsburg Dynasty and their prolific marriages to preserve royalty?

With regard to national flags, I consider them a symbolic image utilized to ensure cohesiveness among those citizens who worship a government. Pride, tradition and desire for unity being the primary motivators, a tribal influence.

Slartibartfas · 01-25-2007, 02:53 AM

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Originally Posted by george.d

Revenge on the Hapsburg Dynasty and their prolific marriages to preserve royalty?

Probably. France and Austria connects a century long strong "friendship"

Only superseded by the relation between France and England.

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With regard to national flags, I consider them a symbolic image utilized to ensure cohesiveness among those citizens who worship a government. Pride, tradition and desire for unity being the primary motivators, a tribal influence.

Its more than tribes. Tribes never were so large as todays nationalities. Dont underestimate that difference. Only technical progress made this possible.

george.d · 01-25-2007, 09:08 AM

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Its more than tribes. Tribes never were so large as todays nationalities. Dont underestimate that difference. Only technical progress made this possible.

Still the same motivations by leadership and followers regardless of size.

Slartibartfas · 01-25-2007, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by george.d

Still the same motivations by leadership and followers regardless of size.

Well, the car serves also the same motivation as the horse. To get somewhere as faster than oneself alone could get to.

That does not stop the former to be a far more sophisticated way of transport. You can root everything back to old instincts and social rituals. There is no point in that.

george.d · 01-25-2007, 12:58 PM

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You can root everything back to old instincts and social rituals. There is no point in that.

True, but I personally see no change in purpose of those instincts and social rituals despite modernization.

Slartibartfas · 01-25-2007, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by george.d

True, but I personally see no change in purpose of those instincts and social rituals despite modernization.

Those instincts and social rituals gradually chance over time. You won't be able to find the great shift as such. Still its flexible. Ever has been.

But we are getting a bit far off topic.

If I remember this thread is about flags, or something like that

george.d · 01-25-2007, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

Those instincts and social rituals gradually chance over time. You won't be able to find the great shift as such. Still its flexible. Ever has been.

But we are getting a bit far off topic.

If I remember this thread is about flags, or something like that

I was referring to flags.