A commonality of ideals would be (excuse this) ideal. However its seems that the commonality we currently share is much more about the negative and demonstrative issues we face. Perhaps we can transition to a more positive position rather than this negative one but varied differences of belief and opinion make it rather difficult right now.





Oh, and by the way- OK OK OK you have made your point. Physical and technological conditions are far better now than they have ever been. I'm simply stating that our social and political conditions have not advanced to the same degree. If anything there has been an abandonment of national values. Probably due to the fact that with our new technology we have more time to explore our humanism and sample the "forbidden fruits".

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Hey you! Yes you. Had enough yet?.................How about now?

Actually, Joe, you may be arguing with the wrong person. I wasn't trying to defend whether we were better off (one assumes we are, but then the "Girls Gone Wild" commercial comes on, and you begin to think otherwise...) ;-)

You seem to be equating humanism to Pandora's box. I can't speak authoritatively on all aspects of humanism, but I do know that Martin Luther received what could be classified as a humanist education, which could have had something to do with instigating the reformation. But that's neither here nor there isit?

Okay: as far as man being the center of all things, I think you have to allow that there really isn't any other way to view the universe. Even the Christian God is something of a human construct, as he is personified, rather than an abstract force. Of course, there's a difference between seeing "man" as the center of all things, and one's self as the center of all things. The former recognizes the inqueness of our species. The latter smacks of selfishness.

I think this may relate to the "fruits of humanism" of which you speak--we tend to think of ourselves as the center of the universe. I agree that we are all inherently selfish, perhaps more so now than in the past. It's true that when you see what is possible, your mind tends to stray there. I would hope that we could find another wayto look outside ourselves at the grand scope of existence and derive some humility from our own existence. Doesn't always happen. But we're still a young country. Things could (and will) change.

This would be a good time to state some specifics. Please explain what values you feel have been abandoned, and what "forbidden fruits" are being sampled. Your statements are too general.

Most of the world undergoes human trafficing (new fancy term for slavery etc) and we quit a few decades short of 200 years ago. They are not happier than us because they must deal with terror, deasease, famine, and so forth more than we. Why should they be more happy than us? They DESERVE to complain and take a day off more than most Americans.

Please provide the evidence that people were miserable 100 years ago. Can you? No, only the quotes of very ancient beings.

I never stated that I was miserable, at least I don't recall it if I did. I also never said everyone else was miserable. So then how do you charge me with these things if I never comitted them? I am very happy thank you very much-I have good marks, I have great friends and family, and I love my music dearly. There is food in the basket and a toilet where there should be one so I'm content. Miserable? No. Am I the happiest man on Earth? Well I havn't met him yet so I can't say. I hope not!

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Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.
`J.R.R. Tolkien-The Lord of the rings, Volume I

again with the money equaling happiness. You know, I would be glad to trade places with one of those farmers. Gettings up at dawn and retiring at dusk to a half full table I can hardly afford-sounds like an ideal image to me and no joke. I think the less things I own the happier I will be. No worries, just living for moment. You may think Im crazy, but you should try it sometime-just selling your stuff, getting on a bike and living on the road. leather tramps, rubber tramps, any way you take it its a perfect life

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Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.
`J.R.R. Tolkien-The Lord of the rings, Volume I

I assume he is refering to the forbidden fruit as in the Bible story of Eden.
The knowledge of new technology may be "forbidden" but the temptation to great. Now who or what is forbidding the knowledge is unclear and Im waiting for Joes response as well.

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Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.
`J.R.R. Tolkien-The Lord of the rings, Volume I

I think you need to re-read his post. He did not say people in other parts of the world were better off he said they live a lot like we did 100 years ago and asked whether or not one would think they are happy. In other words there are people in other countries with access to the same level of technology that we had 100 years ago and they aren't happy so why would Americans 100 years ago be happy?

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Proof of media bias? A mistake by the major networks they don't want you to know about. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/media...als_04-24.html

Isn't it ironic that some of the happiest people I know are the ones with the least?

Priests and nuns come to mind immediately. Of course, a lot of their happiness comes from their relationship with God, but a large well of their happiness is service to others. Putting someone ahead of themselves. Living a humble life, giving credit to others or God when their labors were essential in accomplishing what was being credited. A complete denying of the ego.

I think that all to often we are so worried about what is in it for me and what will happen to me and mine that we forget that in helping others (even if it's just doing a favor for a friend or letting some dude out into traffic) we are banking away for when we need the boost ourselves.

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The moment we want to believe something, we suddenly see all the arguments for it, and become blind to the arguments against it. ~George Bernard Shaw

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

Happiness isn't of fact of fortune, or wealth. It's based off of your personal belief and personal thoughts. I hate being in the US Army and everything my government is standing for right now, but that doesn’t stop me from being happy. Happiness is not a state of actions that accrue in my life, but more a way I deal with stress. Life can always be worse then it is, and even if you have nothing in life you could be dead. Death is the worse thing in life. I'm not dead so I'm going to live it happy.

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"At the center of non-violence stands the principle of love." ~ Martin Luther King Jr

"Salute the smiling faces of the 21st Century." ~ Daisaku Ikeda

"An eye for eye only ends up making the whole world blind." ~ Mohandas Gandhi

150 years ago God, country, family and goodwill were center to the American way of life. Life was slower and less complicated. Hard work was honored and church and family were our leisure activities. When you have to wash clothes by hand, personally construct a majority of your everyday items, grow your own food, prepare all your meals from scratch and fetch water from the well it leaves little time for the type of leisure that we are so accustomed to. As our technology grew as did our free time. We were able to explore those things that were previously at the bottom of the wish list. As someone previously stated man has a self centered nature by default. Very few of us are satisfied with no activity during this newly found "down time". Some new and some old evils started popping up to fill the void. Prostitution, gambling, TV (Oh our beloved TV), pornography, movies, a variety of new sports and a whole slew of other distractions came to fill the void. The entertainment industry also rose to the occasion to do their part for America by offering distraction after distraction. Now it seems as though nothing is too risqué to show the American public. New reality shows like Survivor, The Littlest Groom, American Idol, Fear Factor, So You Want To Be A Millionaire and varied others give people the ability to explore with out getting up off the couch. And we haven't even touched the Internet. In a few moments I can summon up just about any conceivable thing I want to investigate. With all of this at our fingertips and a short-cut to everything we bore so easily and things and events hold less meaning than before. Life is becoming more and more meaningless for so many. Now I'm not anti-tech but we delved into this new arena with out thought to the consequence. We spend more time in isolation than ever before. People who live next to each other for years don't and have never even spoken. Community service has dwindled to a trickle. And family time is spent stuffing our face in front of the boob tube. What's our national goal? Do we even have one anymore? Where are we going with this? These texts I write are more more of a exploratory narrative that a concrete exclamation. There's obviously an issue here I'm sure we can all agree with that. My hope is if we can expose it to the light and air we can figure our the problem an begin to heal.

If anything Americans are good at that.

Unplug your TV!

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Hey you! Yes you. Had enough yet?.................How about now?