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04-29-2008, 08:38 AM
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Moderator
Tyler Durden
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,000
Location: Dothan, AL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHat
1. Quit teaching electives. Only the basics are needed.
2. No more self esteem, earth day, sex ed.
3. Make all tests non-multiple choice and make all tests explanatory.
4. Get rid of teachers union.
5. Make it all local.
6. Vouchers.
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Yes!
I'd also add for emphasis, get the federal government as far away from our kids as possible.
__________________
Neither am I the means to any end others may wish to accomplish. I am not a tool for their use. I am not a servant of their needs. I am not a bandage for their wounds. I am not a sacrifice on their altars. ... I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask no one to live for me, nor do I live for others. I covet no mans soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet.
Ayn Rand, Anthem.
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04-29-2008, 09:23 AM
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Squire
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 461
Location: Cottage Grove, Oregon, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHat
1. Quit teaching electives. Only the basics are needed.
2. No more self esteem, earth day, sex ed.
3. Make all tests non-multiple choice and make all tests explanatory.
4. Get rid of teachers union.
5. Make it all local.
6. Vouchers.
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If you want such a school for your children, form a charter school, if one does not already exist. Most folk want some electives,
such as languages, band or art, etc., and self esteem, sex education, earth day, etc. My school district makes good use of state funds and from grants from wherever they can be found. Overall, I think we are better off with unions
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04-29-2008, 09:28 AM
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Mercenary
Libertarian-Leaning Liberal
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 312
Location: Oregon
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The economy of the future will be powered by human capital. Therefore, an investment in education is critical, from the individual to the federal level.
1. Every class should develop one, or preferably several, of the following areas: a.) reading, b.) writing, c.) math, d.) critical thinking, e.) speaking, f.) learning to be healthy and happy, and probably a few others I forgot. Therefore, electives should not be abandoned, but their curriculuum needs to involve an application of basic skills. History should be taught, but not passively. Make the students write about history, analyze it, etc. Combine physics with calculus. Combine health education with statistics and biology, etc. I don't want any student to ask, "when are we ever going to use this?" Give them enough math story problems and they'll understand. (:
2. Do not base funding upon local taxes. Somebody who grows up in a poor neighborhood should not be doomed to a marginal school. This cuts off potential before it has a chance to be cultivated. Schools can be customized by state or locality, but funding needs to be equitably distributed on a state and/or federal level.
3. More funding for education, higher teacher salaries with bonuses for outcomes.
4. Establish a vocational and real-world emphasis in secondary schools to prepare people for jobs and situations in the real world, whether those jobs actually require a college education or not. For example, accounting and microeconomics should be mandatory. These are things necessary for any small business owner, which wouldn't require a college degree, but are also things that most people should know to manage their personal finances. Perhaps such education could have prevented the credit crunch.
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04-29-2008, 10:53 AM
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Mercenary
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choclosteve
If you want such a school for your children, form a charter school, if one does not already exist. Most folk want some electives,
such as languages, band or art, etc., and self esteem, sex education, earth day, etc. My school district makes good use of state funds and from grants from wherever they can be found. Overall, I think we are better off with unions
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I did create my own school, at home. My kids dont have to worry about earth day, sex ed, self esteem nonsense,...aka propaganda classes. I give them nothing but the basics at this point in schooling, b/c that is the foundation for all others.
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04-29-2008, 11:40 AM
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Squire
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 461
Location: Cottage Grove, Oregon, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHat
I did create my own school, at home. My kids dont have to worry about earth day, sex ed, self esteem nonsense,...aka propaganda classes. I give them nothing but the basics at this point in schooling, b/c that is the foundation for all others.
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I think that it is wonderful that you have that option, and even better, that you took it. That said, most folks, me included, want what you do not, for our public schools When my daughter was in schools, both public and private, I was worried that she might be taught some BS that I did not agree with, so I paid attention to what she was being taught, and discussed it with her. I think the most important thing is to be actively involved in your children's education, which you clearly are.
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04-29-2008, 01:05 PM
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Reeve
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr House
Here's my plan:
-Make secondary education non-compulsory. One of the big problems with it is that it's a prison-like environment and it feels like it. I say let kids go out into the real world if they don't wanna be in school, learn that it's not so easy without education, and come back more willing to put in an effort.
-Provide vouchers for private schools ( with restrictions, mind you, I don't want Uncle Sam to be paying for catholic schools or madrassas). Competition works, and private providers may even have better solutions than public schools. Depending on cost effectiveness, it might be cheaper to shut down public schools and simply subsidize private ones.
-Centralize administration and funding of public schools. It's currently done by district and paid for out of land taxes, so schools in Compton are much shittier than schools in Beverly Hills, for example.
-Break the teacher's union. Firing a teacher that isn't doing their job right is damn near impossible, and the money being extorted out of the government is not coming off an investor's pocket, it's coming off the taxpayer's pocket.
That's my 2 cents. Anyone got any other ideas?
-Dr House 
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problems with education is not just about the system. a good majority of issues have to do with social status, and parental involvement.
parents now work long hours leaving less time to spend with their kids, and less involvement with their kids. they are basically giving their children the option to succeed or fail, and leave it to the child to be responsible if they fail, or succeed. not only that, but there are many parents that are not even capable of helping their child with homework. so maybe offer free tutors at schools to help those working poor parents, or poor. i would like to see some kind of incentives for parental involvement, and perhaps educated the uneducated parent. completely do away with the no child left behind act. teachers are not able to be creative and actually hve to be too focused on test taking, to make sure students pass all their exams. they do not have the time for example to take kids on trips and such and show them the interesting careers and jobs in the real world. focus more on alternative schools/charter schools. wisconsin is the only state that allows a child to go to a charter school out of the childs school district and the state funds the charter school the parent pays nothing, and from what i understand this has been a success in wisconsin. i feel a parent or student should have more options regarding which school they want to go to. in my opinion the key ingredient to successful education is parental involvement.
if anyone says that class and social status does not effect education i would suggest that someone read unequal childhoods by annette lareau.
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04-29-2008, 01:21 PM
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Squire
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 461
Location: Cottage Grove, Oregon, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revolutionrocker
problems with education is not just about the system. a good majority of issues have to do with social status, and parental involvement.
parents now work long hours leaving less time to spend with their kids, and less involvement with their kids. they are basically giving their children the option to succeed or fail, and leave it to the child to be responsible if they fail, or succeed. not only that, but there are many parents that are not even capable of helping their child with homework. so maybe offer free tutors at schools to help those working poor parents, or poor. i would like to see some kind of incentives for parental involvement, and perhaps educated the uneducated parent. completely do away with the no child left behind act. teachers are not able to be creative and actually hve to be too focused on test taking, to make sure students pass all their exams. they do not have the time for example to take kids on trips and such and show them the interesting careers and jobs in the real world. focus more on alternative schools/charter schools. wisconsin is the only state that allows a child to go to a charter school out of the childs school district and the state funds the charter school the parent pays nothing, and from what i understand this has been a success in wisconsin. i feel a parent or student should have more options regarding which school they want to go to. in my opinion the key ingredient to successful education is parental involvement.
if anyone says that class and social status does not effect education i would suggest that someone read unequal childhoods by annette lareau.
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Good post, but my state (Oregon) also allows students to go charter schools in other school districts
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04-29-2008, 01:50 PM
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Reeve
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choclosteve
Good post, but my state (Oregon) also allows students to go charter schools in other school districts
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oh i dont think i was clear. most states do have charter schools and some are free if they enter a lottery. what i meant about wisconsin is that i dont believe they require this lottery. the district will pay for the child to go to a charter school that is what i meant. i bleive wisconsin is the only state thus far that does this. i could be wrong. the last i knew it was only wisconsin. maybe more states are following.
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04-29-2008, 04:05 PM
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Squire
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 461
Location: Cottage Grove, Oregon, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revolutionrocker
oh i dont think i was clear. most states do have charter schools and some are free if they enter a lottery. what i meant about wisconsin is that i dont believe they require this lottery. the district will pay for the child to go to a charter school that is what i meant. i bleive wisconsin is the only state thus far that does this. i could be wrong. the last i knew it was only wisconsin. maybe more states are following.
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I don't mean to be argumentative, but Oregon does not have lotteries to go to charter schools either, at least in my part of the state. Clearly different states have different arrangements, and it is worth while to look and see which seem to work well. This whole charter school thing was not around when my daughter was in school, but it sounds good to me. Parents who send their children to charter schools tend to be more involved in their kids education. I will learn more about them when my grandsons start school
Last edited by choclosteve : 04-29-2008 at 04:08 PM.
Reason: 2d thoughts
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04-29-2008, 09:21 PM
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Squire
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Georgia
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Education has its real problems. Start with the 10,000 pound elephant in the room. Get rid of NCLB. Right now, by the year 2014 all students will be required to be on grade level. That sounds great but it will NEVER happen. Let's be real. If all students are performing at grade level then the standard is set too low.
Also, depending who is in charge of the White House and Congress, NCLB is going to bring about some drastic changes. 1) Education will become nationalized and everything will be dictated from a national level or 2) All students will have complete choice to pick the school of their liking.
Look at the problems with the students today and address those problems. The next biggest thing in the room is the drop-out rate which hovers around 30%. Address the problems with these students and you will solve most of the problems with education. It does not require more money all of the time. It does not require busting up teachers' unions all of the time.
As I have stated before, when the state of Indiana looks at 3rd grade reading scores and builds prison cells based on that, then something is desperately wrong. While that is a great use of statistics it is also very telling about what happens when a kid can't read by the time he is in 3rd grade. Several other states do the same thing.
Someone suggested we get rid of electives. Why? What is the purpose of getting rid of an automotive technology lab (an elective) that trains students for the world of work? I had a student last year that graduated from high school, went to work at a large service department making $60,000. Eighteen years old making $60,000 the honest way. He is finishing trade school in May and will be making in excess of $90,000. Nineteen years old, doing what he enjoys and will be making $90,000 the honest way.
Why get rid of art? I had a student who took 4 years of art in high school. She received an art scholarship to a school in Florida. Graduated two years ago and is into an advanced form of graphic arts. Not sure of the details. She is making a comfortable living ($60,000+).
Why get rid of culinary arts (another elective)? How about metals? What about band or orchestra? Mythology?
I, too, have problems with certain courses that are more directed at behavior (ie sex ed, etc) than academic courses that many consider electives.
Look at how we are educating students now. Boys comprise the largest segment of the drop-outs. Ask yourself why then you will see that the way we teach boys needs to change. We don't lose them in middle and high school. We lose them in the 5th grade or earlier. Most elementary teachers are female. Kindergarten skills are now more verbal than ever before. Boys are not as developed verbally as girls. So guess what? They become "behavior" problems because the female teachers want the boys to act like the girls. For goodness sake they are boys but now the common "sex change" is to drug them with Ritalin so they become more compliant, more like girls. If they don't get drugged then they go to the office because the female teachers do not know how to teach boys.
Before you say I am off my rocker, think about it. Check the stats. Check the number of referrals to special education. Check the number of discipline problems that are referred to the office.
Last edited by mrnumbersman : 04-29-2008 at 10:58 PM.
Reason: typos
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