Caltex

Normally I'd have to agree with that, but I think there are worse punishments than death, that do not fall under "Cruel and unusual punishment". And these include solitary confinement for the rest of their lives, with the lights always on, no clocks, and only one episode some Children's cartoon available for entertainment for that entire time span.

With such a punishment maybe we could appease both sides.

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Sebelius for VP, not Hillary

We need a new thread for this. We shall not hijack this thread with debate on Stalin. Stalin posts moved here:

The kind of person Stalin was

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Forum Rule 3: Discuss the Issue, not your opponent.

TokenLiberal

Ugh... I just learned some of the details of this case, and god it is appalling. The poor girl...

Despite the side of me that wants to recoil at the death penalty, I gotta say that its justice is sometimes the only thing left. If someone is convicted of a heinous crime as this, he should get a year or so to appeal, and once all appeals are exhausted, be hanged. No more of this twenty-year waiting period, no more "lethal injection" shit and paying thousands of dollars just to kill someone. Bring out the goddamn rope.

LiveUninhibited

The extra cost associated with the death penalty is necessary to avoid executing innocent people, which may occassionally happen anyway.

Studies have also consistently shown that the death penalty has no specific or general deterrent effect.

That leaves retribution as the only reason for the death penalty, and I suppose you could also see it as the ultimate form of incapacitation, though if you're comparing it to life in prison w/o parole it's not much different.

I think using the death penalty as retribution is a bit hypocritical. You kill somebody "humanely" to show that it is wrong to kill somebody "cruelly?" It just doesn't make sense. While applying the death penalty may shorten their lives, it's a rather easy way to go in terms of physical discomfort. I probably won't get a death that easy. That being said, the only way this guy will be safe in prison is if he is in solitary confinement, and that's a hell in itself. The other prisoners will tear him apart for what he did. There is a code of conduct even within prison. If you're a murderer in prison, you may be respected but only if others believe your victim "had it coming." People like this guy, along with child rapists and the like, are likely to be tormented, shanked, tortured, and often killed horribly. That would be more along the lines of the kind of "justice" some posters on this thread seem to crave.

I think it'd be more productive to find a way to make prisons self-sufficient, and make labor within them mandatory. Prisoners should work to be able to provide some kind of payback for their victims or their victim's family in this case (i.e. money may be earned, but mostly goes to the victimized). The labor for those who did more heinous crimes should be made more horrible and difficult. The rest of us have to work 40 hours a week to live, they should have to spend most of their time working to get even basic priviledges.

ArrackiFalconX10

Note that it's all about the guys social usefulness. If he can keep a supermarket carry-out line moving, then he'll be set free maybe under some different name. It's all all about social usefulness remember. Look at Big Brother, you only get voted out if you aren't useful. You can do whatever you want to people long as you can rake in the mola.

Delta9

We have to start thinking of criminals as test subjects. It is not our job to punish them, it is our job to determine how to fix them. We must do everything in our power to rehabilitate them, if we ever hope to have an advanced society.

We should be testing out new methods of rehabilitation, socialization, and most of all pacification. We stand to learn a lot from inmates if we try, and we really have no other choice.

We can kill as many criminals as we like but we will never be any closer to a perfect society, the only thing that has ever brought us any closer is attempts to understand crime and the minds of criminals.