[quote=Caltex;130180]You're spouting your subjective personal experience and beliefs. I'm trying to debate the fundamental flaws in Christian doctrine and how God cannot be both omnipotent and benevolent at the same time as he has created fundamentally flawed beings, inclined to be greedy and lazy. Virus's that wipe out populations, ailments that cause only suffering, and other forms of causing pain. This proves that the Christian god as people believe him to be does not exist. There cannot be a benevolent and omnipotent power, as this world of suffering would be the creation. Thus it can only be one or the other. Either it is benevolent, but powerless to stop the nature of pain in the world, or it is omnipotent, but created a world of pain on purpose.

On the statement "God allowed the temptation of man in the Garden" If he exists and is omnipotent, then he created man, with the fundamental flaw that would cause him to give into temptation. Not only that, but if he is omnipotent he knew that man would give into temptation before even creating him, and thus could have foreseen the problem and fixed it before even creation. This is NOT about free will, this is about the fundamental flaw in man to be greedy, and have a "grass is greener" problem.

On "God reveals himself in miraculous cures for the blind and lame as well. but it is better to enter heaven blind and lame, then hell seeing and able." This is exactly the double standards that Christianity is full of. If he is all powerful he could prevent the torment before birth, why is he to be praised for curing some blind man 2,000 years ago, as he has allowed countless people to be blind since. It's like taunting his followers "Oh I could ease your pain, but I'd rather see you suffer."

The doctrine is flawed. The Christian god cannot exist in the form the bible says him to.[/QUOTE]



These statements just go to show just how uneducated you are on christianity. How can you show the flaws in something that you dont comprehend, thats just as bad as racists, they dont like other "colors" because they dont understand the color difference....

There are no FUNDAMENTAL flaws in faith, nobody can determine what is right or wrong, good or bad, or smart or stupid for someone else to have faith in. Look back at my post from before and you will see that you have no ground to stand on when you bring someones faith into question..... religion.... okay sure.... but not someones faith.


And also..... the Bible is not necissarily to be taken literally... the words and time frames and descriptions and miracles may have in turn meant something quite different in their old language. You need to be realistic. You are saying that people with faith have their head in the clouds and that you are the one who is thinking logically because you are the one trying to relate facts and statistics to faith.....

Your ways are way more irrational than those with ANY kind of faith.. because anyone will tell you that you cannot control nor change, nor question anothers faith, until you BECOME them and live their life... And NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY.... when it comes to FAITH..... your "FACTS" and all that other crap go right out the window.

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Brandi

Thats exactly how I feel and lucky for me too, lol, cuz I havent gone back to my church in almost 4 years.... lol.

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Brandi

[quote=educatedvoter88;132402]If you would have actually read any of my posts you would see that the fundamental flaws are in the Christian beliefs in an omnipotent and benevolent god. Fundamental flaws in faith occur when a belief held is in something that cannot be. I can deduce that no god could possibly be both omnipotent and benevolent at the same time if we and the world around us are his creation.

There is no confusion on the doctrine, Christians believe in an omnipotent (All powerful) god, who is also benevolent (perfectly good).

I am not saying I can disprove the belief in a god, I am saying that a god cannot be both omnipotent and benevolent, if he has created a wold based on suffering, where man is a fundamentally bad being.

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Christian God is like this. You do not have because you do not ask. And because what you ask for is sin, self serving. (like asking for milliondollars)

If you love God with all your heart soul and mind. and by doing that Love his law. then you can experience God's love. But since most do not choose God they can not experience his love. Why would a Good God make you love him? why would he force you to believe in him?
But seek and ye shall find. For all those who seek the God of Israel will be blessed. But scorn and mock you will find nothing.

He seperates the sheep from the goats, and the goats he shall be separated from him eternally.

But for his Sheep..

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

My church is wherever I happen to be.

I simply cannot understand why people insist on attributing characterstics to God that he MUST HAVE . . . and then blame him because IF he has those characteristics this is an evil creation. Isn't it remotely possible that God just is and everything that we call the universe is God's functioning (body and mind). Everything about our body's functioning isn't beautiful and wonderful but it enables us to exist and think and create . . . imagine how you would feel as a single cell of your body trying to understand why things in the cellular world are as they are. Why should it be any different for us cellular consciousnesses as part of God . . . other than in scale and composition?

I agree with your post we as human beings are not perfect,after all look at what % of our brain we actually use.
There are many things I do not understand but to blame God or science for that matter would be at best a waste of time at worse?