billybones468

never mind about the last part Ice clarified it for me

Viv

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The religion could be viewed as clouding their judgement.
Religion is supposed to be a guide us about how to live, but realistically most people are indoctrinated before they have developed a consciousness. Then it's too late to question the logic, beliefs are ingrained and supported by the family unit, difficult to stand out against this and difficult even to view it objectively.

We differ here. If someone else murdered the mother by witholding medical treatment, it would be a criminal offence.
It's suicide in her case, plus there were more people than herself to consider. She completely ignored the rights of the children.

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I agree within reasonable limits. So long as a religion doesn't disseminate dangerous policy. The government runs public health campaigns to advise what is good for people and it tailors laws to prevent any threat to life. This religion's views are threatening life.

If it was only the woman who was affected, fine, but she gave up the right to think only of herself when the children were conceived IMO.
We are all gonna die, but it's not like death would have come anyway, she would have lived in this case.

Viv

No problem, I did suggest you'd gone mad

In some circumstances, I go with that. Terminal illness where people have reached the limit, or are afraid of what's ahead, it might improve the quality of life for the time they have left if they knew they had the ability to end it.

But it would be chaos if suicide became socially acceptable.

Viv

How can it be acceptable when she has the little babies? She was brainwashed by an unhealthy and unwise religious regime and although civil liberty is important people should be protected from that.

Oregon Elephant

Just because she has different views doesn't mean she was brainwashed. That is a bogus claim that people use to try to discredit the decisions of people with a religion. Their views don't matter because they're brainwashed or crazy for believing in something, or whatever you say totry to take away their voice and their right to make decisions.

billybones468

my point exactly thank you

Viv

Everyone is entitled to his view. The suggestion is that she had no view. She was indoctrinated. There is no suggestion that she was mentally unstable.

I agree, different views are fine, but reality check...Different views which kill you unnecessarily are bad.

Oregon Elephant

But she did have a view, a view that you don't agree with, so you say she was indoctrinated and brainwashed to try and take away her view so you can force your view upon her.

iTaliAN_ICe

I disagree. I think most people reach a point sometime in their life at which they question their religious beliefs and find out what they truly believe in. I was raised as a Christian but decided that religion wasn't really my thing, so I decided to abandon it. This person decided that her religious beliefs were very important to her, but I don't think that makes her judgment any more clouded than mine.

Medical treatment isn't being withheld against her will, and that's what matters. It was offered, and she refused.

I'm sure she made arrangements for her children before making her decision. Plus, if it is suicide as you claim, is it healthy for children to be raised by a suicidal mother?

These people are making a conscious decision, and I still don't see any problem with it.

I see your point, but again, I'm sure the children will be taken care of. Is their father still alive? If not, the children can be raised by uncles or grandparents.

Modern medicine, though beneficial, is unnatural. What I was saying was that if her life had followed its natural course (free of modern medical intervention,) she would have died anyway.

Viv

Not at all. She should be brainwashed only with ideas which are good for her health
Please tell me what you see as the logic behind this rule? It was created long before AIDS was detected, so what was the reason for dictating that people cannot have transfusions?