Question for Athiests - Page 10 - Political Forum

Slartibartfas · 11-01-2007, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregon Elephant

Time can't "not" exist. It is a concept of the lineage of events. That like saying in another universe, numbers don't exist.

I mean of course what the "Time" describes, simply not taking place there.

None of our concepts really exist, they all just describe something we think exists or works in this or that way. Nonetheless it would be quite exhausting to have to mention this with each sentence next to every introduced term.

Oregon Elephant · 11-01-2007, 04:29 PM

I think that's where we reach our disagreement. I'm argueing time, I believe that you are argueing spacetime.

But it doesn't really matter, this thread is "Question for Atheists" and I'm not an Athiest.

I can take the 5th.

Slartibartfas · 11-01-2007, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregon Elephant

I think that's where we reach our disagreement. I'm argueing time, I believe that you are argueing spacetime.

But it doesn't really matter, this thread is "Question for Atheists" and I'm not an Athiest.

I can take the 5th.

What again is the difference between spacetime and time? I am unfamiliar with that point.

Oregon Elephant · 11-01-2007, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

What again is the difference between spacetime and time? I am unfamiliar with that point.

Time is a concept, spacetime is the continum that effects how things within that continum preseve the time concept.

Lets see if I can think of a good analogy.
Lets say that "time" is a ball hovering a few feet above the surface of some water, which is "spacetime" (the surface of the water is). We are in the water, under the surface. As we look at the ball (observe time), the ripples in the water are going to twist and torque the view of the ball.

Slartibartfas · 11-01-2007, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregon Elephant

Time is a concept, spacetime is the continum that effects how things within that continum preseve the time concept.

Lets see if I can think of a good analogy.
Lets say that "time" is a ball hovering a few feet above the surface of some water, which is "spacetime" (the surface of the water is). We are in the water, under the surface. As we look at the ball (observe time), the ripples in the water are going to twist and torque the view of the ball.

Ok I think I get it now, thanks.

But why do we need the concept of such an absolute time? Why not just assume that spacetime is actually the end of the story and there is nothing absolute behind it?

Oregon Elephant · 11-01-2007, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

Ok I think I get it now, thanks.

But why do we need the concept of such an absolute time? Why not just assume that spacetime is actually the end of the story and there is nothing absolute behind it?

In order to make calculations between things in different spacetimes, you have to convert your calculations from spacetime A to the absolute time, then to spacetime B, it is possible to convert straight from A to B, but it is immensly more chalengling. It's like useing series for "pie," instead of "pie" itself, but it is possible.

The belief is that the spacetime is constant everywhere, even outside the universe. The matter and energy in the universe as it expands causes the spacetime to ripple, and because we are in the universe, we live in the ripples of the spacetime (even though the ripples never present themselves in any real size).

misalign · 11-01-2007, 08:58 PM

The problem is not so much the existence of god. The problem is immortality. A spanish philosopher once said that if there be no salvation from death then our faith is in vain or words to that effect. If there be no salvation who cares if there is a god. Do you really think you can live forever.

Shiva_TD · 11-01-2007, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

What is supposed to happen when two universes collide?
Somehow my instincts tell me we do not really want to find out...

Anyway, my hope relies in the fact that our universe survived the last few billion years, which makes me confident that chances are at least substantial that it will survive at least a little longer ...

But I still dont know why time should exist outside of our universe. Just because it exists in ours does not say much, does it?

According to the most recent theoretical physics I am aware of the probability is that nothing would happen if two universes collided. This is best explained because other theoretical universes are not in the same dimension as ours. Actually the different universes, according to theory, do overlap and we don't even notice it. But its all in the math which is admittedly too complex for me. I can follow the overall theories but the math is where the secrets lie and it takes a Stephen Hawkin to understand that.

Slartibartfas · 11-02-2007, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiva_TD

According to the most recent theoretical physics I am aware of the probability is that nothing would happen if two universes collided. This is best explained because other theoretical universes are not in the same dimension as ours. Actually the different universes, according to theory, do overlap and we don't even notice it. But its all in the math which is admittedly too complex for me. I can follow the overall theories but the math is where the secrets lie and it takes a Stephen Hawkin to understand that.

I think we share that problem. Multidimensional stuff might be a neat mathematic theory, but I simply can't grip it entirely. I think few can, unless as you said people of the category "Stephen Hawkin".

Would the word "collission" be correct then at all when there are no consquences?

Oregon Elephant · 11-02-2007, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiva_TD

According to the most recent theoretical physics I am aware of the probability is that nothing would happen if two universes collided. This is best explained because other theoretical universes are not in the same dimension as ours. Actually the different universes, according to theory, do overlap and we don't even notice it. But its all in the math which is admittedly too complex for me. I can follow the overall theories but the math is where the secrets lie and it takes a Stephen Hawkin to understand that.

The best theory regarding that issue (multiple universes) is String Theory (which is almost a religion). There are multiple demensions (brains) that exist in parrelle to each other, when these brains touch they cause a "big bang" in each of them at the point of touching. So many universes exist in many different brains, but it is possible for two big bangs to occur on the same brain, what they think is that the universe will collapse into nothing and the brain will wait for the next contact to have another big bang, but it could happen that the second big bang occurs before the first one is done.