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Go Back   Political Forum - US & World Political Discussion Forums > Social Sciences, Philosophy & Natural Sciences > Religion - Philosophy - Political Philosophy

View Poll Results: What is the best form of Government?
anarchy 5 13.89%
democracy 16 44.44%
republic 12 33.33%
oligarchy 3 8.33%
autocracy 0 0%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2007, 07:55 AM
Agrippina Agrippina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Oz View Post
The problem is that if you give the rich all the power, they will then use not only their own skill but the laws of the state to maintain their own riches at the expense of everyone else, and pass along their riches to their children. Later people will not be able to make much money.


Is that really a good thing?
Please remember this is not my personal opinion, it's to make the debate more interesting.

Now to answer your question:
In Rome the rich did not automatically have the power, if they stepped out of line, they were exiled. Cicero was exiled for breaking the rules, he spent time in Greece because of his outspokenness an attempt was even made on his life.
So you have people like say Bill Gates and (I know he's English but for instance) Richard Branson and Steve Jobs making policy decisions and especially about money. Of course they make their riches and pass them on, but everyone in the country is encouraged to make their own riches. Part of the oligarchic process in Rome was that if you made it you could move into the exclusive set. The only people who were excluded were the rabble who don't really care about anything, even today, else than where their next meal or entertainment or woman is coming from, whereas the wealthy will work hard to protect their wealth and power.

So to put it in today's terms.

Because these people know the value of a good education and what it feels like to be rich, they will make really good judgments about the standards of education and the ordinary people will strive to be included in the club.
Therefore your middle class will move up the ladder of success.
A good education suddenly becomes a goal.
Because the heads of companies are already in the club, they will ant to stay there, to stay there they have to be successful, therefore business will grow.
The ordinary people running the bureaucracies, they want to get into the club so they will strive to make the requirements to get into the club, so they will make sure their bureaucracies are successful.
And the people at the bottom. There will always be people at the bottom who don't give a fig for anything so they'll stay there and sweep the streets, populate the army etc., same as in Roman times.
Why do you think governments and especially large governments that claim to be democracies don't make absolutely certain that every single member of society has a fair chance to be in the 'club', because they need soldiers in the army. Without a strong army of private wars cannot be fought. And they make war glorious by the parades, uniforms, perks, benefits etc etc, because if they told plain Mr Nobody to bring his own kit, finance his own service and come along for only a small amount of pay and lousy food there would be no army.
So even if you think you've got a democracy in America you already have an oligarchy, just take a good look at it.

OK I've done this off the top of my head, which is a bit loaded with exam info right now, so feel free to pick it to pieces.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2007, 08:25 AM
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Slartibartfas Slartibartfas is offline
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I am for a "Republican democracy"... that option is not available though. But I guess it pretty much boils down to democracy as I could perhaps live with a constitutional monarchy of continental European style as well...
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2007, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
I am for a "Republican democracy"... that option is not available though. But I guess it pretty much boils down to democracy as I could perhaps live with a constitutional monarchy of continental European style as well...
Dude, what the hell is wrong with you?
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2007, 08:27 AM
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I voted (Democratic) Republic, as it is the only style of Government I've ever lived under and the only one I can truly vouch for. I agree with W.E.B. almost on the dot about Anarchism, though. While it is arguably the best idea, I think the lack of motive would be the achilles heel in an anarchist environment.
Most people in the world live in a Republic. But what you probably mean is you only know living in democratic state... I guess.
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Old 10-23-2007, 08:28 AM
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Dude, what the hell is wrong with you?
Why?

It doesn't really matter if you have a powerless monarch on top or a powerless President....
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Old 10-23-2007, 08:30 AM
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Oh you mean like Britain? OK, I thought you got carried away with the whole Hapsburg Empire again. My bad.

You still don't like Jews though.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2007, 08:32 AM
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Slartibartfas Slartibartfas is offline
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Oh you mean like Britain? OK, I thought you got carried away with the whole Hapsburg Empire again. My bad.

You still don't like Jews though.
No, not like Britain. First of all I like to have a written constitution, and secondly the British queen is too powerful. She just doesn't use most of her powers nowadays, but I think nowhere stands that she would not be allowed to change her mind again...

No I had something more alike continental monarchies like Spain to name one, in mind.

Hey but dont forget my slogan:
"We dont have monarchs in Austria, just their jewels"
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2007, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
No, not like Britain. First of all I like to have a written constitution, and secondly the British queen is too powerful. She just doesn't use most of her powers nowadays, but I think nowhere stands that she would not be allowed to change her mind again...

No I had something more alike continental monarchies like Spain to name one, in mind.

Hey but dont forget my slogan:
"We dont have monarchs in Austria, just their jewels"
That's interesting. I don't know jack about the Spanish monarchy. Didn't even know they had one. I also didn't know that the English queen was "powerful." I was under the impression that ever since the so-called Glorious Revolution hundreds of years ago, the monarchy in Britain was hobbled. What can the Queen of Britain do that you would say that she is "powerful?"


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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2007, 08:46 AM
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That's interesting. I don't know jack about the Spanish monarchy. Didn't even know they had one. I also didn't know that the English queen was "powerful." I was under the impression that ever since the so-called Glorious Revolution hundreds of years ago, the monarchy in Britain was hobbled. What can the Queen of Britain do that you would say that she is "powerful?"


WEB
Well the Spanish monarch is hailed as the one who brought democracy to Spain... funny somehow...

Franco thought he might have found a loyal successor in form of the reestablished king. And then this ungrateful bastard did use his power to rebuild a democratic Spain ...

I think the Spanish king does not have much powers nowadays. He is not even allowed to live in the royal palace in Madrid...
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Old 10-23-2007, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois View Post
That's interesting. I don't know jack about the Spanish monarchy. Didn't even know they had one. I also didn't know that the English queen was "powerful." I was under the impression that ever since the so-called Glorious Revolution hundreds of years ago, the monarchy in Britain was hobbled. What can the Queen of Britain do that you would say that she is "powerful?"


WEB
Oz will show you how I only write nonsense, but until he does....

The Queen can choose a Prime minister and I think also fire him, independently of what the Parliament thinks. I also think she can veto laws of any sort she doesn't like. Isn't she as well the highest boss of the army?

Anyway, I think in Europe there are only two monarchs more powerful than the Queen. While the Prince of Liechtenstein being the most powerful monarch in a secular state in Europe and the Pope being the most powerful elected monarch in the last remaining absolute monarchy in Europe.

Last edited by Slartibartfas : 10-23-2007 at 08:53 AM.
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