Are humans any different from other animals? I've heard arguments such as a dog will give it's life to save an owner, which gives it compassion and choice. I've heard that squirrels save nuts for the winter, giving them the ability to plan -- all traits that we have. But is there anything that really makes us different? If so, what do you think that is? Common answers tend to be logic, the ability to belief, consciousness, greed, malice. I'll post my opinion, but I'd like to hear others first.

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It has been my experience that animals, dogs, have all the attributes you describe. For instance, my dog uses logic to figure out to open the gate, she display greed, say with a bone she does not want, but does want anything else to have. Malicious--yes! Compassion yes, she will babysit my granddaughter and keep her safe. nThe only one I cannot respond to is belief. Are we speak of religious belief? Or possibly something else?

I have watched birds and they display the same as dogs, with the possibility of again belief.

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I think there is a lot about the brains of many animals that we simply don't know. I watched this one program about a cheetah mother years ago. At one point she came across this newborn lion. The mother of the newborn had become hurt very badly just before she gave birth and so left the group, gave birth out in the middle of nowhere and then was killed by hyenas. The mother cheetah came across the newborn and picked it up... and stood there for some time. She would put it down... then pick it up.. then put it down. Lions and cheetahs are pretty much sworn enemies and it was as if this mother cheetah was debating in her head whether or not she should take the baby. The newborn was crying and crying and crying (as babies do) and the mommy cheetah stood with it for probably a good 10-15 minutes... not sure what to do (she had just had babies herself pretty much so she was in that "mother" state-of-mind). Eventually.. but very slowly.. she left the newborn lion cub where it was where it was almost immediately eaten by the hyenas. But it was sad to watch and it is the type of thing that makes you KNOW that many animals (even wild ones) work on much more than just instinct.

In terms of beliefs... I can almost guarantee they have no need for it. Much less the time. The majority of wild animals' entire lives are made up of staying alive each day and keeping their babies alive.

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Beth, interesting. Do you feel the reason many animals tend to live by instinct isn't so much because they're limited to it, but rather they are forced to?
What I wonder isn't so much whether animals experience pain, but rather in what sense are they conscious of pain, and what does it mean to them. What I’m saying is that human beings, as social beings, impute meaning to our physiological processes in a way that is denied to non-human animals.

I would also say that Choice is that unique gift humans are blessed with that animals are not. And I don’t mean that a hyena for example does not know when to attack its victim or when to wait. That hyena will only make a choice based on the situation (Is it a good time to hunt? Are there many animals to hunt? Am I in great danger if I hunt? And so on). However, the moral choice is not there; what will this do to the family of my victim? For what reason do I hunt these animals if I can eat grass of vegetables? Why can I not eat vegetables? And so on.

But I would say that animals can be greedy, maybe even have hints of malice. Logic is there at least in bits as why else would a squirrel save nuts for the winter?

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"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."
Isaac Asimov

Well I am not Beth but I would like to answer. I think the question you asked about the family of the victim is pretty much an argueable one. Of instance, humans do not ask that question when they kill someone or something, they are doing it the same as the animal, because of necessity. The sniper in Iraq, example only, does not ask the questions before he drops the hammer, if he did he may act. Most predators are also omnivores, they will eat foliage when thwy have to, but they know their bodies and meat is a necessity and so they eat when available. Much can be said about these things as being instinct, I agree but it is a learned instinct, just as the Human animal has learn some of his instincts.

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While animals may 'think' in one sense, they don't think as we do. They can't, as they lack a complex symbol system of language in which to think.

It is primarily language which seems to differentiate us from 'lower' spieces. Our capacity to make abstract symbols.

As to a dog defending its owner - it's all due to the pack instinct, the very thing which makes dogs domesticable. It has absolutely nothing to do with 'compassion' - that is a typical human misreading of canine behaviors.
I love dogs, but I have never for one moment deluded myself into thinking any dog has compassion or any other feeling which is not wholly instinctual and aimed at survival goals.
For a predator like a dog, compassion is totally irrelevant. It has no survival value for a wolf pack.

From a purely biochemical perspective humans and animals are all carbon based life forms and can be fit into THAT very large category. Are humans ANIMALS ? That's going to depend on which human(s) you ask.


Does anyone see where I could take this ? LOL


I'll let someone ELSE :-) If ....



Our highly evolved brain that makes us question why we exist. Why ANYTHING exists. We've done well in understanding the rules and LAWS of this place (this universe) but still can't explain it. Actually, we BELIEVE we've done well in understanding the rules and LAWS of this place, but continuous research in many areas keeps showing us that we've maybe barely scratched the surface.


And these questions and thought processes have led most populations of humans to generate religious beliefs of one kind or another. That's part of the nature of intellect.


These things I've mentioned distinguish humans from animals. As I said earlier they're still in the same LARGE category of biochemical, carbon based life forms. This doesn't seem to ME to allow us to then scale it down further and logically make the statement that humans are just another animal.

IMO, that is the only difference.

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Neither am I the means to any end others may wish to accomplish. I am not a tool for their use. I am not a servant of their needs. I am not a bandage for their wounds. I am not a sacrifice on their altars. ... I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask no one to live for me, nor do I live for others. I covet no mans soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet.

Ayn Rand, Anthem.

Which ties into whether you believe we were created or evolved of course

So, you would basically say "humans are animals. Just a smarter KIND of animal." ?

I would. It's our big brains that have made us so succesful (along with our broadly omnivorous diet) that we now inhabit almost every part of the planet. They don't come cheap, either- we have a protracted childhood (compared to other animals) in order to develop them. As for language, we have the most developed language by far (probably... who knows what dolphins are saying?), but other primates can plan, work with some abstract concepts, and learn sign language. I think they have more language in the wild than we generally give them credit for.
Don't get me wrong- language, and our ability to 'fix' it in the form of written language, is an awesome thing, but I don't think it's entirely correct to say that there is no abstract thought without it, just an impared ability to communicate those thoughts to others. Much of the time I think in pictures, which have to be translated into words before I can communicate them. If my dogs have abstract thoughts (not sure about the malamute mix, but I suspect the aussie does), they are in pictures or sensations (smells?) rather than words.

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