Yes, the Devil knows that he is going to loose. But that is not going to stop him from trying. This is just how things are, only God can answer why He decided to do things this way, and even if we heard the explanation we wouldn't understand.

gotcha.

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Fry, I am perhaps someone who could be labeled as atheist. Well, perhaps some kind of agnostic. I really don't care much how it is really called. The point is, I dont believe in a God. I don't believe in the christian concept of a soul (seperated from the body) and therefore I neither believe that there exists a life after death. No need to say that heaven and even the more hell are in my eyes nothing that factually exist.

Having that said, I pronounce that I "do not believe" and my rational thoughts also suggest very strongly that I should not believe in it, but there is no proof against God. And thats easy to explain why, because the whole concept is designed in a way that it can not be proved or disproved rationally.


My opinion and relation to religioun as the following. Everyone shall search enlightment the way he likes, as long as the let me search it without a god.


WRT the world is so complex argument. I dont see any improvement through the introduction of a god. Because if the world is too great and complicated to believe it has come into existance without a god, how could you believe that God did not need an even higher thing to come into existance. Or if you think that he is there for eternety, is believing in the world we have without a god, harder than believing that there exists something that did not need to be created as it was never not there.

You want to know my answer why the world can exist without a god, and we with it? Because if it would not work according to those wonderful complex rules it does, we could not ask us this question at all. We simply would not exist. And therefore there might even exist endless universes nearly all completely fucked up with hardly any order, perhaps not even parallely but after each other, it does not matter. We can not know it but the probability that out of a nearly eternal number of trials one functions as perfectly as our does in order that life could come into existence, is next to "1", ie nearly obligatory. So the answer in my eyes is simple, our universe looks like it does, because we exist there, because we can exist there.

This devil seems to be a rather stupid guy. After so many failed attempts, and he still does not get it...

Yea, he's not that smart, but can deceive the hell out of you.

So, last week, I was nursing my customary Sunday morning hangover when my girlfriend convinced me that we should go and adopt a cat. So between greasy breakfast and the Sunday night Bears game, I went down to the local animal shelter, picked out a kitten and took him home. Within a few hours of having him at my place, we discovered that he had a pretty bad cold - he was getting fluid in his eyes, sneezing and wheezing, and feeling lethargic.

The next day, my girlfriend took him to the vet, where our suspicions about his cold were confirmed. The vet gave us a bunch of tubes of this awful pink liquid in syringe-like containers that we have to forcibly stuff down his throat twice per day. So, twice a day, religiously, I have held this little kitten on my lap, restrained all four of his paws, tipped his head back, shoved the applicator deep in his mouth, and force-fed him this awful smelling medicine while he mewled pathetically and tried to squirm away. I can think of few things more onerous for a little kitten than to be restrained by something that weighs 60 times as much as him and is shoving something down his throat.

Of course, he's running around my feet as I type this, full of energy, with the fluid gone from his eyes and the wheezing cleared up, none the wiser that this terrible procedure was actually beneficial to him.

Now, I'm neither trying to claim that the atrocities that you mention were "beneficial" nor am I even trying to "prove" the existence of God to you with my silly parable. I'm simply trying to make a point. If God exists in the way that we think of Him (benevolent, omniscient, and existing totally outside of the bounds of human understanding and logic), wouldn't it be silly to attempt to categorize His actions or "plan" in terms of human logic? Would it not be even more silly than my kitten, in his instinctual way, trying to make sense of why I was ramming a tube down his throat?

From what I understand of Satan (who I think is as mythological as Zeus or Hercules), he is more tricky than stupid. Do you think the sly character single-handedly responsible for man's fall from grace would be dumb enough to step into the ring against a ringer?

Seems to me that he'd try to be more clever than that.

I wouldn't worry about someone who would say something that stupid making you look stupid. Categorically, the existence of God can neither be proven nor disproven. His statement is as much one of faith as someone kneeling at the altar of his chosen God and offering thanks and prayers.

As an interesting aside, there was an article in Time magazine recently, where Dawkins debated a Christian geneticist (I'll look up the name later, though I'm kicking myself for not remembering it). As much as I personally find "Intelligent Design" (i.e. Creationism-plus) to be absurd pseudo-science, I have no problem with scientists having faith, and I have to say that I thought the Christian got the better of Dawkins in the debate. The only point where he was a bit weak was when he related the idea of absolute good and evil to science. However, outside of that, I thought that Dawkins came off as more dogmatic than his opponent, and I was duly impressed with a man so accomplished in genetic science being able to adopt a view on it that was harmonious with his faith.

There is no Devil, just God when he is drunk--a line from a song by Tom Waits.

God is a kid with an ant farm and we are the ants--line form Constatine.

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TRUTH exist, only a falsehood has to be invented.

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I love Tom Waits.

I really should read more. I thought the ant farm line was from Bruce Almighty.

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