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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2006, 12:41 PM
Lord of entropy
 
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Originally Posted by Scruff View Post
Dammit.
I agree
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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2006, 12:26 PM
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Wait... has this turned into an attempt to disprove gods now?
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2006, 09:42 PM
Lord of entropy
 
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Since we were talking about dragons and all I thought I'd show my support for them by letting you see my tat of one :-)

Lets see if I can get the image to show here. Cool it shows :-)

Got a little Oderus (lead singer of GWAR) on other shoulder :-)
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File Type: jpg thane's tattoo.jpg (22.9 KB, 4 views)

Last edited by Ygorl : 11-27-2006 at 09:44 PM.
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2006, 09:47 PM
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Wow, you are one comitted fan.
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2006, 10:54 AM
Lord of entropy
 
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Originally Posted by Scruff View Post
Wow, you are one comitted fan.
GWARS my band :-) That tat got me backstage to meet 'em one time even. They're actually pretty cool people.
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2006, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Thane View Post
Dragon = Fantasy lifeform -> has elements assigned by those creating it for a story or fable -> existence has BEEN disproven
The existence of dragons has been disproven? Holy nobel prizes, batman - did you just invent a way to prove a negative?
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2006, 05:31 PM
Mercenary
 
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Originally Posted by Scruff View Post
So basically you're dismissing the logical parallels of the argument simply because one seems like a less feasible concept to you from a totally subjective standpoint?
Bingo - Thane likes to do this based on subjective opinion, but he'll never cop to it...
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2006, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by drgoodtrips View Post
Now, I'm neither trying to claim that the atrocities that you mention were "beneficial" nor am I even trying to "prove" the existence of God to you with my silly parable. I'm simply trying to make a point. If God exists in the way that we think of Him (benevolent, omniscient, and existing totally outside of the bounds of human understanding and logic), wouldn't it be silly to attempt to categorize His actions or "plan" in terms of human logic? Would it not be even more silly than my kitten, in his instinctual way, trying to make sense of why I was ramming a tube down his throat?
I do not accept that God, if He exists, can be benevolent,
if He is also omniscient and omnipotent.

One can always claim there is a transcendent element to
God and His activity or inactivity, which excuses Him for
reasons we do not understand, or cannot understand.
I think this view is ad hoc and also rests on faith rather
than the evidence which seems to me to condemn Him
at least for acts of omission. I understand my own view
may to some extent rest on the "faith" that transcendence
is not real. So be it.
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2006, 06:59 PM
Lord of entropy
 
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Originally Posted by drgoodtrips View Post
The existence of dragons has been disproven? Holy nobel prizes, batman - did you just invent a way to prove a negative?
Yes. Maybe I'll tell you someday
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2006, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by USViking View Post
I do not accept that God, if He exists, can be benevolent,
if He is also omniscient and omnipotent.
So, omniscience and omnipotence logically preclude benevolence? I've used a similar argument from time to time for why I think that the idea of "hell" is absurd, but that is predicated upon the idea of a God creating humans knowing that He would damn them. If we leave that part out, I'm curious as to your logic on this statement... will you elaborate?


Quote:
One can always claim there is a transcendent element to
God and His activity or inactivity, which excuses Him for
reasons we do not understand, or cannot understand.
I think this view is ad hoc and also rests on faith rather
than the evidence which seems to me to condemn Him
at least for acts of omission. I understand my own view
may to some extent rest on the "faith" that transcendence
is not real. So be it.
"Transcendent element" - meaning people who say "Well, God works in mysterious ways, and I believe that all good and all suffering are part of a plan that makes everything better" (more or less what I opined about in the story of my kitten, who is still sick, by the way )? I presented this argument because I see no logical grounds that would make it false (though such speculation isn't rational, per se).

Now, it seems to me that you're saying "well, that might be true, but Ockham's Razor would tell us that all this suffering exists because God can prevent it, but chooses not to, for whatever reason, and that reason is probably not altruistic." I suppose that's a fair argument. Either argument relies on faith (we must assume the existence of God in the first place), but I see on reason that one is more logical than another. In either case, we assume the existence of a being that is outside of the bounds of our logic, so accepting "Divine Plan" at that point seems to be a drop in the "faith bucket".
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