There is no such thing as life - Political Forum

Kazikli Bey · #1 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 02:35 AM

(n.b. i wasn't sure where to put this one so moderators, feel free to move it)

I was talking to a friend today and he told me the strangest thing, humans, humanity, life: they do not exist, the only things that exist are planets. Here's how he explained it too me:

It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity equals zero, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.

J.Locke777 · #2 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 03:00 AM

This is quite a silly idea. Sure it sounds all deep and profound, and indeed is quite thought provoking. But this idea falls apart under the slightest examination. It is easy to prove you exist. You have the ability to have an impact on the world right? well, if we didn't exist, we wouldn't be able to impact the world in the slightest. Also, suppose our life on earth is really nothing more than a Dream? I don't know about yours, but I tend to have very realistic dreams. I may go through very real emotions, pain, or exhuberance, but the whole time, I am, at the very least, aware that I am dreaming. That is why for good dreams you don't want to wake up, while for bad dreams, we are very anxious to leave our subconcious state. If we take that and apply it to this life, If this were a dream state, We would know it at some point in time.

I don't know if this was serious or not, so I treated it as such. If it was a joke, I'll laugh with you.

Kazikli Bey · #3 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.Locke777

I don't know if this was serious or not, so I treated it as such. If it was a joke, I'll laugh with you.

A little of column A and a little of column B

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.Locke777

This is quite a silly idea. Sure it sounds all deep and profound, and indeed is quite thought provoking. But this idea falls apart under the slightest examination. It is easy to prove you exist.You have the ability to have an impact on the world right? well, if we didn't exist, we wouldn't be able to impact the world in the slightest.

Not if you are a solipsist, then you can't really prove anything outside the own existence of your own mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.Locke777

Also, suppose our life on earth is really nothing more than a Dream? I don't know about yours, but I tend to have very realistic dreams. I may go through very real emotions, pain, or exhuberance, but the whole time, I am, at the very least, aware that I am dreaming. That is why for good dreams you don't want to wake up, while for bad dreams, we are very anxious to leave our subconcious state. If we take that and apply it to this life, If this were a dream state, We would know it at some point in time.

If this was a dream state, and we take your idea of good and bad dreams, then i guess i've wanted to wake up for a long time, about 6 or 7 years, it coincides with something, i just can't remember

emptypepsi · #4 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 07:42 AM

Did you question your friend? Did you explore each side of his theory for holes? I hope you did.

Quote:

However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity equals zero, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.

This first statement alone (which the rest of his theory rests upon) balances on the notion that life is here on this planet. Therefore, the rest of his theory is merely a kiddy math game. I could also sit and divide by 30, 467, 5,000,000, or any number. Did he explain the significance of using infinity? Did you ask?

BTW, average population does not mean Total population. If 99% of the Universe is unoccupied "on average", that leaves a 1% that is. He conceded in his first sentence that life is here ("not every one" implies that there must be life inhabited on one, in this case: Earth), as he would have no room to make such an observation with.

I reject your friends theory. Have him retool it and then try again.

emptypepsi · #5 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazikli Bey

Not if you are a solipsist, then you can't really prove anything outside the own existence of your own mind.

Now, using Cogito ergo Sum as an argument for nothing else but yourself and your existence is something that is compelling. But be ready to defend such an argument against very scrutinizing questions that tend to come with it.

BTW, Nice avatar.

Kazikli Bey · #6 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emptypepsi

Did he explain the significance of using infinity? Did you ask?

There is an infinite number of planets, therefore since we are trying to determine the average population, we must take into account how many planets there are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by emptypepsi

BTW, average population does not mean Total population. If 99% of the Universe is unoccupied "on average", that leaves a 1% that is. He conceded in his first sentence that life is here ("not every one" implies that there must be life inhabited on one, in this case: Earth), as he would have no room to make such an observation with.

Even if there was a large number of inhabited planets it still wouldn't change the point and we know that not every planet is inhabitable, therefore not every planet can be inhabited.

Quote:

Originally Posted by emptypepsi

I reject your friends theory. Have him retool it and then try again.

It wasn't his theory, the guy he got the theory from (Douglas Adams) is dead. So have fun trying to get it re-tooled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by emptypepsi

Now, using Cogito ergo Sum as an argument for nothing else but yourself and your existence is something that is compelling. But be ready to defend such an argument against very scrutinizing questions that tend to come with it.

I will be (wikipedia, here i come)

Quote:

Originally Posted by emptypepsi

BTW, Nice avatar.

Thanks, i'm an Orwell fan (now guess where i pulled solipsism from), love your avatar by the way, always been a fan of that comic strip

FRYandBENDER · #7 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 09:32 AM

If there is no such thing as life, then how could my dog die? Thanks for making me think about it.

emptypepsi · #8 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 10:22 AM

Quote:

There is an infinite number of planets, therefore since we are trying to determine the average population, we must take into account how many planets there are.

There are an undetermined amount of planets. We can not know with certainty that there are infinite planets, just as we can not know with certainty that the laws of gravity will apply tommorow or that the universe will continue expanding tommorow. Your argument rests upon the assumption that those things are objective and absolute truths.

Quote:

Even if there was a large number of inhabited planets it still wouldn't change the point and we know that not every planet is inhabitable, therefore not every planet can be inhabited.

This statement does not mean they can not be inhabited either.

Possibility · #9 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 11:17 AM

infinity is not a number.
whats 3.1 divided by zero? it's 3.1

By the maths so far, the universe does seem to have a finite yet changing size, which means an finite number of planets.
It's all theory.
In theories, who's has the most scrutinized and probable reasoning? I don't think this one is in the running. think it falls down on the third word,known.

He who says he knows, doesn't know...
He who says he doesn't know, knows...
Socrates

Kazikli Bey · #10 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emptypepsi

There are an undetermined amount of planets. We can not know with certainty that there are infinite planets, just as we can not know with certainty that the laws of gravity will apply tommorow or that the universe will continue expanding tommorow. Your argument rests upon the assumption that those things are objective and absolute truths.

No, we can know that there are an infinite number of planets because there is an infinite amount of space possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by emptypepsi

This statement does not mean they can not be inhabited either.

True that, but then we would need and infinite number of people to inhabit an infinite number of planets, infinity divided by infinity equals 1, therefore 100% of the universe is actually populated, as someone does not occupy the space next to me this statement cannot be true so we can assume there is a finite number of people populating the universe with an infinite number of worlds.