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Do you agree or disagree with the treatment of women in Islam?
The gentleman imparting his wisdom reminds me of films which I have seen of Hitler at the Nuremberg rallies.
So many claim that Islam is a pure and peaceful religion but by the sound of it they treat women like livestock. Disgraceful barbarity.
If my sister's husband tried to beat her with a rod they would have to take both he and I to the ER so that they could extract my fist from down his throat.
1. "For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner" (1 Tim 2:12-14, NIV).
2. "...and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee" (Gen 3:16).
3. "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man..." (1 Cor 11:3).
4. "Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man" (1 Cor 11:9).
5. "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husband, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife... therefore as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husband in every thing" (Eph 5:22-24).
Islam is a primative religion... but look to its roots.
1. "For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner" (1 Tim 2:12-14, NIV).
2. "...and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee" (Gen 3:16).
3. "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man..." (1 Cor 11:3).
4. "Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man" (1 Cor 11:9).
5. "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husband, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife... therefore as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husband in every thing" (Eph 5:22-24).
Islam is a primative religion... but look to its roots.
The three mainstream religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) all are full of doctrine which preaches that women are MUCH lesser than men. Islam sticks to it. Christianity and Judaism choose to conveniently ignore much of it but there are still many, many, many families in the United States alone that practice a bit of what is written in their holy books. Perhaps they don't go so far as to stone their wives on their father's doorsteps if they find out on the wedding night that she is not a virgin (it's written right there in the book). But there are a number that teach their daughters to be subservient to men and their sons to expect such from women.
If anything, in terms of how women are treated, you could say that Islam simply follows their holy book to the word. Christianity and Judaism come up with excuses to pick and choose what to follow. But if they could get away with it, I'm sure the same would be done here. They stopped following all of the rules a long time ago and that gave women and men who disagreed a chance to voice their opinion and change things. When religious doctrine is the word of the land and there is no "well... let's not follow this rule for a bit and see how it goes"... Islam is what you get. Those three religions were all doing the exact same thing 1700+ years ago. Islam just stuck to it.
(The Koran) says "and beat them." This verse is of wondrous nature."
As serious as this kind of belief is, I can't help but laugh at this dumb ass.
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Neither am I the means to any end others may wish to accomplish. I am not a tool for their use. I am not a servant of their needs. I am not a bandage for their wounds. I am not a sacrifice on their altars. ... I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask no one to live for me, nor do I live for others. I covet no mans soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet.
1. "For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner" (1 Tim 2:12-14, NIV).
2. "...and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee" (Gen 3:16).
3. "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man..." (1 Cor 11:3).
4. "Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man" (1 Cor 11:9).
5. "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husband, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife... therefore as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husband in every thing" (Eph 5:22-24).
Islam is a primative religion... but look to its roots.
.
In terms of quote 5, you forgot the rest of the passage, which, if anything, puts more burden on the man.
Ephesians 5:21-30
21 Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ.
22 Wives should be subject to their husbands as to the Lord,
23 since, as Christ is head of the Church and saves the whole body, so is a husband the head of his wife;
24 and as the Church is subject to Christ, so should wives be to their husbands, in everything.
25 Husbands should love their wives, just as Christ loved the Church and sacrificed himself for her
26 to make her holy by washing her in cleansing water with a form of words,
27 so that when he took the Church to himself she would be glorious, with no speck or wrinkle or anything like that, but holy and faultless.
28 In the same way, husbands must love their wives as they love their own bodies; for a man to love his wife is for him to love himself.
29 A man never hates his own body, but he feeds it and looks after it; and that is the way Christ treats the Church,
30 because we are parts of his Body.
Also, there is a little more in that 1 Cor 11 passage:
11 However, in the Lord, though woman is nothing without man, man is nothing without woman;
12 and though woman came from man, so does every man come from a woman, and everything comes from God.
__________________
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
— Robert Heinlein, Time Enough for Love
In terms of quote 5, you forgot the rest of the passage, which, if anything, puts more burden on the man.
Ephesians 5:21-30
21 Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ.
22 Wives should be subject to their husbands as to the Lord,
23 since, as Christ is head of the Church and saves the whole body, so is a husband the head of his wife;
24 and as the Church is subject to Christ, so should wives be to their husbands, in everything.
25 Husbands should love their wives, just as Christ loved the Church and sacrificed himself for her
26 to make her holy by washing her in cleansing water with a form of words,
27 so that when he took the Church to himself she would be glorious, with no speck or wrinkle or anything like that, but holy and faultless.
28 In the same way, husbands must love their wives as they love their own bodies; for a man to love his wife is for him to love himself.
29 A man never hates his own body, but he feeds it and looks after it; and that is the way Christ treats the Church,
30 because we are parts of his Body.
Sorry but... God says to women "submit and serve" and says to men "love like you love yourself". I would say that the burden falls on the women.
Quote:
Also, there is a little more in that 1 Cor 11 passage:
11 However, in the Lord, though woman is nothing without man, man is nothing without woman;
12 and though woman came from man, so does every man come from a woman, and everything comes from God.
That's... pretty irrelevent. It says plain as day right there that the man is head of the woman. The rest can be interpreted in a number of different ways, but mostly "awww, isn't that sweet?" kind of way. It is metaphorical. "Man is head of the woman" is not metaphorical. It is straight up.
As I said before.... the three mainstream religions that most people know about are very similar in many aspects. The Bible is full of abuses towards women that are sanctioned by the Christian God. Modern Christians simply choose not to follow that for <fill in the blank> reason. People who practice Islam follow the word of their holy book. It says treat women like they are worthless animals whose shame reflects upon the men closest to them... so they do.
Any believer of (at least) those three mainstream religions who says "Islam is horrible for treating women like that!" is being hypocritical. #1. Because it says to in both the Koran and the Bible as well as a number of other holy texts #2. You are criticizing one religion for adhering to their holy texts and pass judgment on them while you choose to ignore or omit parts of your holy text (which you believe is written divinely and should not be subject to human omission or the like) because it is convenient for you do to so....
Of course I am not condoning the treatment of women by Islam. But how some people can sit here and say "barbaric!" and then go home and choose to read specific chapters in a book that they are supposed to be living by in it's entirety that happens to have the exact same things written in it... makes no sense to me. Yes. Islam is barbaric in the way it treats women and expects women to behave. But the Bible says the same thing. What does that make you?
If anything, in terms of how women are treated, you could say that Islam simply follows their holy book to the word.
Unlike the holy books of Christianity and Judaism, Muslims believe their holy book contains the direct, perfect, and immutable word of Allah as delivered by Mohammed, the final messenger. Therefore, it must be taken literally since it comes straight from God.
Quote:
Christianity and Judaism come up with excuses to pick and choose what to follow.
Christianity and Judaism have both been reformed, whereas Islam has not. As a matter of fact, it is impossible to reform Islam, because who is a mere mortal man to question the direct word of God? It would immediately be recognized by other Muslims to be blaspheme to attempt to reform Islam and blaspheme is an offense punishable under the pain of death in Islam.
It’s also one of the reasons Islam will always remain backwards, because half their population is treated as little more than chattel.
Unlike the holy books of Christianity and Judaism, Muslims believe their holy book contains the direct, perfect, and immutable word of Allah as delivered by Mohammed, the final messenger. Therefore, it must be taken literally since it comes straight from God.
Wait..... what? Christianity and Judaism does not teach that the Bible is a holy book which was dictated by God himself (some parts written by him like the Ten Commandments and their punishments)? Perfect and direct?
This is news to me. I have never heard anyone say "This is an imperfect book which was written by men who thought they might know what God wanted people to do and say" about the Bible. Please let me know where I should go to hear this.
Quote:
Christianity and Judaism have both been reformed, whereas Islam has not. As a matter of fact, it is impossible to reform Islam, because who is a mere mortal man to question the direct word of God? It would immediately be recognized by other Muslims to be blaspheme to attempt to reform Islam and blaspheme is an offense punishable under the pain of death in Islam.
It’s also one of the reasons Islam will always remain backwards, because half their population is treated as little more than chattel.
Christianity and Judaism "reformed" by picking and choosing which parts of their holy texts to follow as time went on. The same is written in both books. Islam sticks to it. Christianity and Judaism do not. Christianity and Judaism criticize Islam for the way they treat their women (among other things) even though the exact same things are written in their own books. They simply choose not to follow it. They criticize Islam for adhering more to their holy texts than they do. How does that make sense?
"Well, we don't stone women to death for cheating on their husbands anymore. Therefore we are more moral and better people." But it says to in your book which was written by your God (so you say). So you are choosing to ignore it? Why? And if so, how can you say "You are wrong for following your doctrine too closely... be more like us... ignore some parts... it's okay because we say so."
Sorry. I'm just not seeing how people can sit here and criticize another religion for strictly adhering to it when their own holy books say the same thing and they choose to conveniently ignore it because they, themselves (not their God because no where in the Bible does it say "And God spake saying 'Feel free to change and reform what you think isn't so good about this book that I have given to you as my word. It might not be so perfect and with technology and all... and the concept of individual rights... well, that might create conflict with what I have written here..").... they, THEMSELVES, have decided to change and ignore some things. It's hypocritical and doesn't make sense.
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