Demise Of Democracy - Political Forum

CHUQ · #1 (**permalink**) 11-07-2006, 06:05 AM

I came across this while reading articles about the election and I thought it would be a good exchange on the philosophy.

WorldNews

FRYandBENDER · #2 (**permalink**) 11-07-2006, 09:17 PM

At least half of this article is bullshit.

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The ads that are sent in the mail speak volumes of his campaign. Almost all of them have been attack ads-based on fear and trying to damage and attack the opponent.

One of the first adds that arrived in my mailbox was an Anti-Abortion ad that showed two babies, one crying and one smiling. One candidate will make you cry which mentions Toureilles while the other candidate will make you smile naming Esparza.

The Border Security ad shows a sheriff in front of a Court House and on the back is Esparza’s picture, in the background a sheriff’s badge. In large letters it reads, ‘Terrorists exist in the world and there are constant threats against our country. Michael knows terrorists can use our southern border to come into the U.S. and harm our families. He will increase funding for law enforcement and increase agents patrolling the border.

One ad again depicts a large picture of a cute, precious sleeping baby. It says, ‘Take A Stand For Life, vote for Michael Esparza.’

How are these attack ads? The anti abortion merely states what side of the issue each candidate stands. And to bring attention to the border as an avenue for terrorists and saying that he wants to stop that possibility isn't so much trying to induce fear as much as stating a commonly known fact and showing his stand on the matter.

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Another ad shows an unattractive picture of Toureilles and it reads ‘South Texas Family Values?’ She voted to allow homosexual couples to serve as foster parents and will legalize homosexuality…vote for old-fashioned values.

This one is if'y, but if those are indeed the values that south Texas family keep, than I don't see how bringing this to their attention is unreasonable.

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Another ad accuses Toureilles of raising Property Taxes and a Liberal. Yet, it was Esparza who gave Tax Abatements to businesses that have helped raise property taxes.

The latest attack ads have dealt with groundwater and Private Property Rights. Both accused Toureilles of future issues that have not been voted on, yet the ad says Toureilles has done nothing.

I will agree that if these two are true, they are inappropriate.

The rest of the article decrying the evil church "machine" backing of republican candidates and how ballots have been stuffed in the past and elections rigged is all bullshit as well.

I'm not saying that churches and religous organizations are not spending money to further their agenda, but c'mon, George Sorros and all kinds of left wing organizations do the same.

As far as stuffing ballots and rigging elections, just look at what has come about in Pennsylvania.

All this shit happens and is perpetrated by both sides.

And this is probably my favorite line.

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the goal is for some to continue to maintain power at the expense of denying others their vote and opportunity to participate in democracy.

I won't get into the whole reason that some people shouldn't be allowed to vote and how no one has a right to vote in a federal election, I'll give in that you have the right to vote in state elections, but is that any worse than trying to gain power by wanting to enable illegals to vote?

Both parties are full of shit.

FRYandBENDER · #3 (**permalink**) 11-07-2006, 10:13 PM

Geeze, just look at the link panel for websites on the right of the article, could they have crammed more explosions in the pictures? Yeah, only republican candidates running for office use fear tactics.

CHUQ · #4 (**permalink**) 11-11-2006, 06:00 AM

Elections are bought and sold to the point that only a millionaire can afford a 165,000 yr job. I agree that both parties are full of shit and each member has a personal agenda--that being the holy trinity of politics--money, power and influence.

FRYandBENDER · #5 (**permalink**) 11-11-2006, 11:03 AM

I think a lot of it has to do with insecurities they have in themselves, they just want to be loved, but being inherently a bunch of assholes no one will love them. WE WILL BE MADE TO LOVE THEM....... if we know what is good for us.

Slartibartfas · #6 (**permalink**) 11-11-2006, 12:45 PM

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Originally Posted by FRYandBENDER

...And to bring attention to the border as an avenue for terrorists and saying that he wants to stop that possibility isn't so much trying to induce fear as much as stating a commonly known fact and showing his stand on the matter.

I disagree. Its well known that the border is not the problem for terrorists. 9-11 seems to be the best example for that. The border control can't help you unless you want to victimize every single member of a ethnicity or cultural group. And even then the border control would have a difficult time.

Having that said, of course goods that cross the border need to be effectively controlled. Not only to prevent smuggling bombs etc, but mostly to prevent smuggling in general. In fact the use of border controll is mostly to find outside of the issue of terrorism.

FRYandBENDER · #7 (**permalink**) 11-11-2006, 01:54 PM

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I disagree. Its well known that the border is not the problem for terrorists. 9-11 seems to be the best example for that.

You know that Hugo Chavez is teaching arabs how to act like mexicans so they can cross the border right?

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The border control can't help you unless you want to victimize every single member of a ethnicity or cultural group.

Victimize? They are literally walking all over the idea that we a sovereign nation. If you want to say that someone is victimizing the mexican people, then I would take a look at their government. Why shouldn't we be allowed to uphold our laws?

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And even then the border control would have a difficult time.

If we can put a go cart on Mars, I'm pretty sure we can figure out a way to secure our border.

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Having that said, of course goods that cross the border need to be effectively controlled. Not only to prevent smuggling bombs etc, but mostly to prevent smuggling in general. In fact the use of border controll is mostly to find outside of the issue of terrorism.

Yeah, terrorists are not the only reason we should shut the border down, there are the primary reasons of coarse, but it seems that drug smuggling and illegal immigration are not good enough reasons to some people to actually do anything. Bringing to light that ole Chavez is helping to get terrorists over here only strengthens the case for border security.

Slartibartfas · #8 (**permalink**) 11-11-2006, 03:44 PM

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Originally Posted by FRYandBENDER

You know that Hugo Chavez is teaching arabs how to act like mexicans so they can cross the border right?

That claim is new to me. Who says this? Source?

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Victimize? They are literally walking all over the idea that we a sovereign nation. If you want to say that someone is victimizing the mexican people, then I would take a look at their government. Why shouldn't we be allowed to uphold our laws?

Well, if you make a law that forbids officially any arab looking Muslim to enter your country, than do so. Until then it is a victimisation that its allready enough to not eat pork to be suspicious, and then if you even look arabic, prepare for endless interrogations.

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If we can put a go cart on Mars, I'm pretty sure we can figure out a way to secure our border.

Well, a European probe made the first surface pictures of Titan. That does not mean we could cope with the immigration from Africa, even though their is a sea in between. Not to talk about terrorists.

Compared to a terrorist tight border, shooting rovers to Mars looks like a Kindergarten task.

FRYandBENDER · #9 (**permalink**) 11-12-2006, 01:40 PM

Citgo Fueling More than Your Car… Terrorist Training Camps?

The evidence is mounting that there may be a major attack, on the scale of 9/11, in America in the coming year. One horrible scenario is that a dirty nuclear bomb will go off in California, because it is so easy for Mexican illegal immigrants to cross into that state’s porous border.

Why isn’t your mainstream media reporting this?

A year and a half ago, you may remember, a terrorist suspect was arrested at London’s Gatwick Airport, a Muslim with suspected links to Al Qaeda was jailed after a live grenade was found in his luggage. His ticket shows he flew in from Colombia. It has been learned that his trip actually began his in Caracas. He was a Venezuelan. And there are reported to be more like him. There are reports from the volunteer Minute Men of finding Muslim immigrants among groups of illegals crossing the California border.

U.S. intelligence is still coming to grips with reports that Al Qaeda and other Muslim terrorist groups are setting up bases in Venezuela. There are further reports of camps teaching Muslims Mexican Spanish and role-playing to have them act like Mexican immigrants.

A London newspaper reports Osama bin Laden has established a training camp on Venezuela’s Margarita Island, a tourist destination that also has an Arab-Muslim community and a bad reputation as a hangout for smugglers and terror groups like Hamas and Hezbollah.

Chavez has met with Saddam Hussein. In fact, he was the first foreign leader to visit Baghdad after the first Gulf War, and he expressed his admiration for Saddam. He has offered support to convicted terrorist Carlos “The Jackal.” He considers Fidel Castro his mentor. He gives sanctuary to Colombia’s FARC rebels, a group that is trying to overthrow the Colombian government and has also killed Americans.

Last year, a former Venezuelan major gave sworn testimony that he personally delivered a million dollars to Al Qaeda and Taliban forces in Afghanistan, on behalf of Chavez. Later, he called the U.S. attack on Afghanistan and Iraq “terrorism.” But would Chavez be bold enough, or some would say stupid enough, to allow Al Qaeda to operate in Venezuela?

“There’s a lot that we don’t know about his motives, a lot that he keeps concealed,” said Stephen Johnson, a Latin American specialist at the Heritage Foundation.

“It’d be very easy for them to operate there, and they would not be unwelcome in Venezuela. There’s testimony, the testimonial evidence. There’s anecdotal evidence. But none of this has really been followed up, and it needs to be,” Johnson said.

Chavez and his inner circle are keeping the Muslim terrorist camps under cover now, because when, and it is only a matter of time some believe, a terrorist event hits inside the US, they don’t want any connections to leave a trail to Chavez.

Now we know the fact that Hugo Chavez has met with Saddam Hussein, before the war and before he switched from a palace to a spider hole.

The fact Chavez has met with Moammar Ghaddafy, Kim Jong-Il and Iran’s fascist president…the friendship with the dying Fidel Castro, the fact he has not condemned the guerillas in Colombia, and called Bush “the devil” all of these things lead you to suspect that there is some kind of connection with the dictators of the world.

Some still believe Chavez will have to concentrate on oil production in order to revive Venezuela’s oil industry and woo back its biggest customer, the United States. But on the other hand, Chavez has also said that trade agreements with the United States are “the road to Hell.” And he has signed a deal with China for 500,000 barrel per day — more than half of the Citgo supply to America.

Thank heaven for 7-Eleven making it a bit harder for Hugo Chavez to make money from the country he wants to see destroyed.

Slartibartfas · #10 (**permalink**) 11-12-2006, 02:23 PM

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Originally Posted by FRYandBENDER

Why isn’t your mainstream media reporting this?

Sounds a bit conspiracy theorist like...

Is there a serious somerwhere in sight? Because ultra conservative Americans claimed also for eons (or are they still doing it?) that Saddam Hussein had strong connections to Al Kaida and was a major figure in anti American terrorism.

If this Chavez report belongs to the same sort of category I know where to put it...