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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2007, 04:12 PM
FredFlashInTexas FredFlashInTexas is offline
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Originally Posted by perdidochas View Post
However, the purpose of the vouchers was to allow parents to choose an alternative to failing public schools. The purpose is not religious. It is similar to the way the GI bill and pell grants, etc., can go to church-based colleges. The intent is to increase education, not promote religion.
You make a good point. What particular case are we talking about? Is there an federal appeals court decision in the matter?

Was there an allegation or finding that the voucher plan was a subterfuge or pretext?
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2007, 04:33 PM
perdidochas perdidochas is offline
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Originally Posted by FredFlashInTexas View Post
You make a good point. What particular case are we talking about? Is there an federal appeals court decision in the matter?

Was there an allegation or finding that the voucher plan was a subterfuge or pretext?
Never got to federal court.

USATODAY.com - Fla. Supreme Court strikes down school vouchers
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2007, 07:39 PM
FredFlashInTexas FredFlashInTexas is offline
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Originally Posted by Blues_127 View Post
Another post here about education has lead me to a subject that bugs the hell out of me....Maybe it will spur some discussion.

How do you seperate church and state in a government of the people and by the people without ultimately making religion illegal?

My example before was the school voucher system. Alot of parents liked it and immediately sought to send there students to their preffered schools, many were religious schools....becuase checks were cut by the government the voucher sysytem was held to be an illegal blending of church and state.

This in effect told parents that the attempt to give children their religious values in education was illegal.
What voucher system are you talking about, Whammer Jammer?

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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2007, 09:10 AM
FredFlashInTexas FredFlashInTexas is offline
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So, civil government is formed by who?
That depends on which government you're talking about. The U. S. Government was adopted by the people.

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Originally Posted by Blues_127 View Post
When did the government and the people get separated in the US?
Beats me, dude. When?

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Originally Posted by Blues_127 View Post
Do they not represent those parents interests with those parents tax dollars.
Our political rules represent our secular interests, not our religious.

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Originally Posted by Blues_127 View Post
I want my money back if I have to trade secularism for my faith
What civil law or policy requires you to trade secularism (the ideology that certain practices or institutions should exist separately from religion or religious belief) for your faith? Are you advocating civil power over your religion?

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Originally Posted by Blues_127 View Post
They do trespass on the Jurisdiction of God by telling those parents it's ok to go to secular schools, we'll pay for that but nothing else.
God does not have jurisdiction over secular education. The civil government does.

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Originally Posted by Blues_127 View Post
Usually, private Church schools well surpass the carriclum (sp?) of state run schools...
How do they surpass it?

Last edited by FredFlashInTexas : 06-24-2007 at 12:35 PM.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2007, 09:23 AM
FredFlashInTexas FredFlashInTexas is offline
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...ethics and religion is being eliminated from the schools...

Bishop Andrews declared that the schools should be improved by elementary religious instruction. "Gradually," says Mr. Nicholas Murray Butler, President of the Industrial Education Society of New York, "all mention of ethics and religion is being eliminated from the schools; and it is even fashionable to make ethics an elective study in our colleges and universities"; and he says that this is producing young men who "look upon fashion or social convenience as the arbiter of morals, and when this stage is reached the disease of moral illiteracy has set in."

--The Evangelical Conference at Washington, Page 649, Rev. Walter Elliott (1888)
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2007, 11:21 PM
Tim Tim is offline
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[quote]
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Originally Posted by panteth4h2o View Post
Heh. Some certain number of people at another forum where I used to be a member.
Hmmm...seems like I know what you're talking about....





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Well, if that's the case, then I expect they will take everything out of the government right down to prayer in public office and to recognition of the Christmas holiday, unless they want to recognize it as national "Winter Holiday". Not that the commercialism of Christmas resembles anything Christian anyways.
And that's the future...
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2007, 10:52 AM
FredFlashInTexas FredFlashInTexas is offline
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That was the case when Protestantism, and then Protestant/Catholicism, was the overwhelming majority in America. In 2007, that is no longer the case and views other than Protestant/Catholicism have significant political power and demand that all religion be exempt from the cognizance of civil authority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ?
Well, if that's the case, then I expect they will take everything out of the government right down to prayer in public office and to recognition of the Christmas holiday, unless they want to recognize it as national "Winter Holiday". Not that the commercialism of Christmas resembles anything Christian anyways.
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Originally Posted by Tim View Post
And that's the future...
"Prayer in public office" sounds like religious right code for civil authority over religion. Are you talking about genuine prayer by a civil magistrate, or a civil authority assuming jurisdiction over the people's prayers?
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