Slartibartfas

I dont want to engage against your beliefs. Religion is nothing one can argue about.

But one single question, who gave the council the authority to call Aurius a heretic and the own version as the true belief? Who if not they themselves by basing their legitimation on some men made traditions.

My own opinion is that the teachings of Jesus if taken in the way he supposedly meant it, is imcompatible with the catholic church we got centuries after him.

PS:
Its however interesting, the catholic church might be the last surviving institution of the Roman empire and as such it was a central factor for the developement of the European history. Not only for the bad sides, but also for many good ones. Also when it comes to science. Just one example:

It was the monk Mendel who laid the basis for the theory of evolution with his fundamental theory of heredity. But it was also the church that fought with all possible means towards the one person who just continued Mendels way and spinned a greater picture.
It was the church that preveted the art and knowledge from total collapse in the dark ages, that rescued much of the knowledge of the Roman Empire, the abbeys where the centers of science for a long time, but it was also the church that tried to stop scientific advancement especially at the step into a new age in the 16th century.

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Independent147

Okay, here's how I see it: Everyone will beleive what they beleive. Christians take what they want and discard what they want to fit their own beleifs. What we're talking about is what the official church beliefs. What we're supposed to beleive. But not everyone agrees with their own religions church. They will beleive what they want to beleive, and few have the power to change this.

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panteth4h2o

Well, if put in the context of the time, he would be heretic if he taught something that the other 318 bishops were not teaching about the pre-existence of Christ. Arius' argument was that there was a time when Christ didn't exist, which has no biblical reference at all. If the bishops had not received this doctrine from their predecessors, then they were clearly going to label Arius' lone argument as heretic. Prior to Constantine's conversion, the other churches were still familiar with the fires of persecution, and the organizational body had not yet become politically corrupt. So at the time, this was a different body than what it later evolved into, and I would think they probably had no reason to doubt their own teachings about the Trinity yet.

Oh, well I certainly agree with you 100%. The doctrine of the Catholic church seems to have slowly evolved over the centuries after Constantine's conversion, especially after they gained political power. Despite what they might claim, much of it is incompatible with the early church when it was pure. The whole doctrine of Mary was something the early church was not familiar with, as was the title of Pope, indulgences, purgatory, praying to the saints, the celibacy of priests, etc. These were all concepts that fall into the category of man made traditions, so you are right.

Definitely. I find it fascinating how it evolved over the centuries.

I would have to say that Christianity started to go through it's biggest change after it was accepted by the Roman Empire. That's when it became politically corrupt at times. But there was still some good that came out of it, and there were faithful people who also made contributions to society.

Independent147

For being such a small country and not even being part of the UN, the Vatican holds a whole lot of political power! For instance, in some texts, Pope John Paul II was credited with the downfall of the USSR.

__________________
"Love has its sonnets galore. War has its epics in heroic verse. Tragedy its sombre story in measured lines. Baseball has Casey at the Bat." - Albert Spalding

You can get a lot more done with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone. -Al Capone

"There are three things that should never be talked about; politics, religion, and... the Great Pumkin."
-Linus
Pirates ftw! http://www.politicsforumpoliticalwor...uestion-2.html

panteth4h2o

Yeah, I also find that to be fascinating that they have so much pull and influence.

Wolfman

of course she was ressurected that was Jesus's mother the Mother of Christ
the "Virgin" Mary and no she was not a sinner it was Mary Magdelene and she had no association with Jesus

Slartibartfas

Well Pope John Paul II actually had its finger in important incidents that lead to the downfall of Communism. It was not him alone but he was a figure that had considerable influence in the Polnish Solidarnocs. And the Solidarnocs as we know was the first stone that brought in the end the whole east block to fall.

This was of course only possible because of the weakend position of Moscow and politicians like Gorbatshow...

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Snow Patrol

wow.. catholism is so similar to shiite.. there are 12 emams to whom people pray, and they are waiting for the 12th one to come and save the world.

Snow Patrol

that was my intention here actually

Troianii

I have Catholic family and, as a child, some of them told me to pray to particular Saints in particular cases.