ISLAM is infact pagan, here are six links - Political Forum

Wolfman · 04-09-2007, 10:41 PM

Evil Muhammed? Evil Islam? by Jude Wanniski

Is Islam Evil?

Islam

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil

THE ISLAM LIE

What is Pagan

the sixth one is infact the answer that yes they're still pagan why a cresent moon above every mosque because they still worship Hubal

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 04-09-2007, 10:50 PM

I'm sorry but this just seems like ignorant bullshit to me.

I'd like to see the comments of Public_Enemy and Saladin in response to this crap.

Wolfman · 04-09-2007, 10:56 PM

hey, remember these are articles I found...
also well they still use the cresent moon symbol so one has to wonder

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 04-09-2007, 11:09 PM

Let's examine those links:

Evil Muhammed? Evil Islam? by Jude Wanniski

This link only gives reactions by people to an article that was written. It offers no proof or argument about why Muhammad is supposedly evil.

Islam

What is the significance of this link to your comment?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil

Again, this article seemingly has nothing to do with showing that Islam is evil, as per your claim.

THE ISLAM LIE

This one I had to laugh at when it starts listing the sins committed by Muslims. By this measure, shouldn't we condemn Christianity for the sins committed by Christians?

Putting 10's of millions of Africans into slavery
the Holocaust
Killing 10's of millions of Native Americans
Killing 10's millions of fellow Christians in all kinds of war
Subjugating every country in the world for colonial exploitation

But you won't apply this standard to Christianity, which means you're just Muslim-bashing.

What is Pagan

SO WHAT?

Is Islam Evil?

I'll be back to refute this one later.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 04-09-2007, 11:10 PM

So what Islam uses a Crescent? Who cares? What is that supposed to prove?

Scribbler1 · 04-10-2007, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois

So what Islam uses a Crescent? Who cares? What is that supposed to prove?

Remember the old Proctor and Gamble "man-in-the-moon" logo? Somebody started a rumor that it was a satanic symbol and it dogged them for years.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 04-10-2007, 01:56 AM

Alright, I got the basic gyst of CAUSA's arguments against Islam and why it is evil. The stuff about the crescent is just childish bull crap. Rational people don't pass judgement on a religion because it's shape is "funny" or worshipped by some cult that has nothing to do with the religion. The Nazi swastika came from some Tibetan monks, does that mean that the Dali Lama is a Nazi?

In any case, moving past that. Here are the main claims of the Islam is evil camp:

* Muhammad was violent, launching raids against peaceful carravans
* Muhammad was anti-Semitic, seizing the lands of Jews, killing the Jews and selling them into slavery
* Muhammad married a 9-year-old and is a pedophile
* Muhammad had several wives and thus practiced polygamy
* Muhammad was a violent man, not like Jesus who was peaceful

I have consulted with three history books on this and I'm going to say my impressions of Muhammad and Islam and this whole debate.

Firstly, I would say that it's not so relevant what Muhammad did back then. The question is: what is Islam now? Islam has behaved with far more tolerance towards non-Muslims than has Christianity. Who did the following?

The Inquistion
The Crusades
Religious War (i.e. St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre)
Sending out missionaries to accompany armed invaders on most countries of the world

Not Muslims. That was all the doing of Christians.

Although Muslims taxed non-Muslims, they didn't do Inquisitions on them, as the Spanish did to the Moors and the Jews, and Europe did pogroms on the Jews, so don't give me any bullshit about how mean the Muslims are. Mind your own glass house first.

OK, moving on. So the question is: how have Muslims acted recently?

The answer is that Islam is diverse and that it's dumb to use a blanket statement to try to cover them all. Central Asia, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Turkey are all Muslim. Several of these countries are democratic and do not sponsor any terrorism against us. We get our countries oil supplies from Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, so how jihadist can they be? We also have very good relations with Jordan and Egypt, so again, where's the jihad? Oh right, there is none.

In my opinion, Islam is one variable among many: including the culture of the nation its in, the economic position of the country it's in, the geographical position of the country it's in, and so forth. In other words, it's dumb to just make blanket statements about Muslims, since Muslims are a diverse group.

So the relevant thing here is not what Muhammad did back then, but what Muslims are like right now. The answer is that you can no more say what Muslims are like right now, then you can say what Christians are like right now.

You have good Muslims and bad Muslims, good Christians and bad Christians. That's it.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 04-10-2007, 02:15 AM

OK, now let's address the life of Muhammad.

It is true that Muhammad:

* Raided and attacked peaceful carravans
* Seized the lands of Jews and killed other Jews
* Had up to 9 wives at one time
* Married a 9-year-old

However, this has been taken out of context. Muhammad and the Muslims were initially bullied for their religious and political beliefs when they first started out in Mecca. The muslims were forced out of Mecca due to their religious beliefs. They were all crammed into Medina, and they did not have the skills to farm. They thus turned to banditry to survive.

This sounds awful doesn't it? What about the Jews? Didn't they stand outside the walls of Jericho and when they came crashing down, did they not kill and slaughter every last man, women and child? What about that?

I'm not going to defend what the muslims did, but I'm not going to spare Christians or Jews from the same criticism they levy against the muslims.

The situation with the Jews was also complicated. The Jews actually initially invited Muhammad in to settle some fights among themselves. However, it seems that many Jews had hostile relations with Muhammad. Either that, or they would not accept Muhammad's attempts to lead Medina. Honestly, I don't know.

In any case, there was a power struggle and Muhammad expelled some Jews and killed others (some were suspected of plotting against the Muslims).

With regard to Muhammad's wives, it was Arab custom to marry as many as four women simultaneously if the man could support them. It is possible that due to the high amounts of casualties due to the fights the muslims were engaged in that Muhammad married them out of charity. It's possible. I read nothing in the three books that Muhammad had intercourse with any children. It is possible that the girl was betrothed to Muhammad.

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In the final analysis, at least for me, I don't see religion as pristine, especially not the Old Testament, which is also a part of Christianity. Religion cannot escape from the savage situation history puts it in. Muhammad was a product of his environment, just as was everyone else in history.

I think it is ignorant to rush in to judge Muhammad based upon modern Western values, when Muhammad lived in a violent Arabic backwater in the 7th century AD.

Brother Oz · 04-10-2007, 07:32 AM

He may not have married a 9 year old anyway. A Turk told me that they had some sources which indicate that particular one of his wives was 17.

Personally, I think Mohammed was your typical medieval ruler. Yeah, he conquered and killed, so did all the other rulers. He married lots of women, so did lots of other rulers.

Izzibeth · 04-10-2007, 08:20 AM

Pagan = Evil now?