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04-17-2008, 09:46 PM
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Knight
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When it comes down to it, believing in the Bible is reason
God created mankind so we would have fellowship with him. He gave us free will so that we could CHOOSE him. Wouldn't it make no sense to have a bunch of drones who chose God no matter what? Imagine if you had a toy doll that talks and tells you it loves you. Would you genuinely feel loved? Of course not. Why expect any less from God? We were created in his image after all.
Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
God created the universe. There is no way the universe was anything but made. Everything has to have a cause. That is a well established fact. God is that cause. He created the laws of physics and all the atoms in the universe and is thus outside the parameters of them, so thus it can be said that he is not bound by the need to have a cause. He is ETERNAL, and the only reason we cannot comprehend eternity is because we have FINITE MINDS. No matter what we try, we cannot comprehend eternity because we are not eternal. Simple as that.
God created hell because of sin. Sin is criminal, all of it. Have you ever lied to anyone? You're a guilty criminal who God considers worthy of eternal punishment. Ever stole? You're a guilty criminal who God considers worthy of eternal punishment. Ever hurt someone? You know you have sinned.
1 John 1:10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"
Hebrews 9:22 "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission."
Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Hell was not made for man but for the devil and his demons.
Matthew 25:41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"
But because Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden, man fell from grace became in need of God. And God not wanting to lose mankind came to Earth as a man (Jesus Christ) so to be sacrificed, baring the sins of the world so that whosoever believes in him and follows him unto death might be saved. You see, its a pardon.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
__________________
"Good intentions are a noble thing, but you have to look at the end result to see if those intentions are well placed."
-- LessGovMrPrez
"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have."
-- Thomas Jefferson
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04-17-2008, 09:49 PM
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Knight
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Proverbs 1:7 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."
Psalm 119:1 "Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD."
2 Corinthians 6:1 "We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain."
We are to be perfect and obey all his commands which are layed out in the Bible. If we don't, we can backslide and thus lose our salvation. We CAN avoid sinning if we abide in Christ.
Fear of the Lord is healthy fear. Why do people strive to pass exams in college? They fear failure. Why do people avoid murdering others? They fear going to jail. Same holds true with God.
Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. "
Hebrews 6:4 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. "
Ezekiel 18:24 "But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. "
".... For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required:.... " Luke 12:43
"MY PEOPLE ARE DESTROYED for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, .... " - Hosea 4:6
God chooses us but then we have to "Take up" our "cross and follow" HIM (Matt 10:38; Luke 14:27).
2 Corinthians 6:1 "We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. "
Hebrews 12:15 "Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble [you], and thereby many be defiled;"
Galatians 2:21 "I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. "
"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. " (Mark 13:13)
If we abide in Christ it can be done.
Luke 18:27 "And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God. "
Ezekiel 36:27 "And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."
__________________
"Good intentions are a noble thing, but you have to look at the end result to see if those intentions are well placed."
-- LessGovMrPrez
"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have."
-- Thomas Jefferson
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04-17-2008, 09:56 PM
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Conscript
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 22
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It's interesting that you quote Parshas Bereishis, may I inquire about your opinion on its meaning...
"Genesis 1:27 "So God created Man in His image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."
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04-18-2008, 10:25 AM
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Conscript
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 30
Location: Bucharest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santa_Claus
God created mankind so we would have fellowship with him. He gave us free will so that we could CHOOSE him. Wouldn't it make no sense to have a bunch of drones who chose God no matter what? Imagine if you had a toy doll that talks and tells you it loves you. Would you genuinely feel loved? Of course not. Why expect any less from God? We were created in his image after all.
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Why would we be drones if he were to undeniably proove his existence? We would accept it as a fact as we do with the rest of things we can't change in this world.
We wouldn't be more drones than when we obey the laws of physics , as an undeniable, unchangeable fact of life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Santa_Claus
God created the universe. There is no way the universe was anything but made. Everything has to have a cause. That is a well established fact. God is that cause. He created the laws of physics and all the atoms in the universe and is thus outside the parameters of them, so thus it can be said that he is not bound by the need to have a cause. He is ETERNAL, and the only reason we cannot comprehend eternity is because we have FINITE MINDS. No matter what we try, we cannot comprehend eternity because we are not eternal. Simple as that.
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Since God created us for the sole reason of being loved ( as you stated above ) , then in my opinion he is bound by the need to be loved.Even the fact that He created us means that God was in a state different than the one He was before creating us , which implies evolution, meaning He is an imperfect being after all.
And you mentioned that God is the cause of the universe. But are you sure that the Christian God is that God? Maybe God has different properties alltogether that the one described in the Bible.
Last edited by cpetroaca : 04-18-2008 at 10:35 AM.
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04-18-2008, 11:29 AM
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Mercenary
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santa_Claus
When it comes down to it, believing in the Bible is reason
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No, believing in the bible is not reason - it is irrationality to believe that "what is in this book is true because it's in this book."
If you say it's rational and logical, then produce and present a syllogism proving this.
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04-18-2008, 11:36 AM
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Mercenary
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordechai
It's interesting that you quote Parshas Bereishis, may I inquire about your opinion on its meaning...
"Genesis 1:27 "So God created Man in His image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."
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God created man in His image means that God created us in the image He preferred for us. male and female is not just male and female but also it reffers to community and leadership for the community, eve being the community adam being the mind or the leader for the community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpetroaca
Why would we be drones if he were to undeniably proove his existence? We would accept it as a fact as we do with the rest of things we can't change in this world.
We wouldn't be more drones than when we obey the laws of physics , as an undeniable, unchangeable fact of life.
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the earth is how God undeniably proves His existence.
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Since God created us for the sole reason of being loved ( as you stated above ) , then in my opinion he is bound by the need to be loved.Even the fact that He created us means that God was in a state different than the one He was before creating us , which implies evolution, meaning He is an imperfect being after all.
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God created us do we truly know why no we dont!!! Should He be respected and loved by us, yes He should does He need our love , no He doesn't. God was never in a different state He is and was in a state of creating. always!! God is always creating no different state, imperfection no way, you try making a fly or even an ant from nothing.
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And you mentioned that God is the cause of the universe. But are you sure that the Christian God is that God? Maybe God has different properties alltogether that the one described in the Bible.
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God is God and yes he does have different attributes I dont believe that Jesus is God for that brings God down to a low level.
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04-18-2008, 05:22 PM
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Knight
Libertarian
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 516
Location: City 17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth-Bringer
No, believing in the bible is not reason - it is irrationality to believe that "what is in this book is true because it's in this book."
If you say it's rational and logical, then produce and present a syllogism proving this.
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Not BECAUSE its in a book but because everything in the book that can be proven is supported by facts.
__________________
"Good intentions are a noble thing, but you have to look at the end result to see if those intentions are well placed."
-- LessGovMrPrez
"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have."
-- Thomas Jefferson
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04-18-2008, 05:26 PM
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Knight
Libertarian
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 516
Location: City 17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash
God is God and yes he does have different attributes I dont believe that Jesus is God for that brings God down to a low level.
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What makes you think that brings him to a low level? He never sinned while living on Earth as a man. If he had sinned, only that would have brought him to a low level. God overstepped giving us our righteously deserved punishment and provided for us a way to escape it. He was under no obligation to do this. He CHOSE to do it.
__________________
"Good intentions are a noble thing, but you have to look at the end result to see if those intentions are well placed."
-- LessGovMrPrez
"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have."
-- Thomas Jefferson
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04-18-2008, 05:30 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santa_Claus
What makes you think that brings him to a low level? He never sinned while living on Earth as a man. If he had sinned, only that would have brought him to a low level. God overstepped giving us our righteously deserved punishment and provided for us a way to escape it. He was under no obligation to do this. He CHOSE to do it.
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Prove it.
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04-18-2008, 10:38 PM
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Conscript
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash
God created man in His image means that God created us in the image He preferred for us. male and female is not just male and female but also it reffers to community and leadership for the community, eve being the community adam being the mind or the leader for the community.
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Adam (אָדָם) translates as "dust" or "mankind".
Eve (חַוָּה), pronounced chavah, translates as "source of life" or "a living one".
Where do you get community and leadership from that?
Santa_Claus, I'm still waiting for your response.
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