When it comes down to it, believing in the Bible is reason - Page 3 - Political Forum

Slartibartfas · #21 (**permalink**) 04-19-2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emptypepsi

Of course. I think the problematic contention here (or at least the implication) is that any other mindset other than the grand leap of faith is somehow unreasonable (which is ridiculous).

I consider faith to have nothing to do with reason at all, not in a negative way, just as a consequence of definition.

Of course you can try questioning the concept of faith with the means of reason, but I think that does not really work as the concept of faith has been created in a way as to lie outside of what can be handled with reason.

Mordechai · #22 (**permalink**) 04-19-2008, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

I study and icome to a conclusion based on deep thinking on scripture, knowledge is from God and he gives knowledge to whoever he pleases. If what i give from studing is able to help someone then that knowledge is not from me it is only from studing Gods word

So basically, you guess... Thanks for letting me know. Out of curiosity, in your opinion, what's the difference between lord, Lord, and LORD when it appears in the bible?

Future Leader · #23 (**permalink**) 04-20-2008, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santa_Claus

Proverbs 1:7 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."

Well I have two things to say about this, doesnt most churches preech to thier people "love God"? how can you love and fear god? And also when adam and eve bit into the apple of knowledge they were punished. How are you suppose to love a god that punishes you for learning?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santa_Claus

We are to be perfect and obey all his commands which are layed out in the Bible. If we don't, we can backslide and thus lose our salvation. We CAN avoid sinning if we abide in Christ.
Fear of the Lord is healthy fear. Why do people strive to pass exams in college? They fear failure. Why do people avoid murdering others? They fear going to jail. Same holds true with God.

Human perfection is impossable. Your right we should do every thing it says in the bible, we should force all women t be completly subservient, sorry hillary. We should burn down every house of worship that isnt a christian church. and finally we should kill any one who dares dispute creationism. Lose our salvation? as if the actions of one group effects the entire human race? a stupid arguement you hath brought upon this thread. Fear your creator? that is like fearing your father, shouldnt you love instead of fear? only despots and dictators need fear to stay in power. people want to pass exams because they know their future depends on it, if people were afraid of failure then people would never do any thing. People do not murder people because they fear reprocussion from the law, they don't kill because they have no reason to, killing is immoral to many bible weather or not the bible condones it or not. The only reason people believe god is because people fear him, no, they fear "it". A bunch of soothsayers got together and told every one that they speak for god and thier actions are pure no matter what they do, and any one who objects will burn in hell by "its" wrath. Any one can create a religion, all you need to do is make up one or 2 believeable stories, preech a message of hope, and if any one disagrees tell your followers that hell awaits dissenters.

but now that i have debunked your comment, now i can give you my opinion about how the bible is not "reason as you put it. All it does is preech reason, it's extremely arrogant to think the bible in its self is reason. its common sense and common decency to not steal and kill, every one knows that regardless of religious affiliation. you can find many quotes from people preeching common sense in the bible, but does that mean with out god those words would be meaningless? common sense is what the bible preeches, and it is inforced with the idea of obey it or burn, this type of fear mongering i can't stand, especialy on such a global scale.

Also here is an Interesting site I found on the web: Strange things in the Bible

cpetroaca · #24 (**permalink**) 04-20-2008, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

the earth is how God undeniably proves His existence.

Would you care to share with us the logic behind the proof?
And which God are you referring to?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

God created us do we truly know why no we dont!!! Should He be respected and loved by us, yes He should does He need our love , no He doesn't.

What is the reason God created humans according to the bible/koran/torah ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

God was never in a different state He is and was in a state of creating. always!! God is always creating no different state, imperfection no way, you try making a fly or even an ant from nothing.

The relation creator-creation is from a logical standpoint very interdependent . True , the creation is obviously the most affected , since it came into existence , but the creator is also affected , since the information aquired through the creation process didn't exist before the creation , information which was added to his state after the creation.
Besides that , God can never be described as "alpha and the omega" ( "everything" as I understand) since it's creation is a separate entity with free-will ( also according to the scriptures) , so God in the best case can be alpha->omega minus it's creation.
Not to mention the logical inconsistencies the attributes "omniscient" and "omnipotent" would bring.

Caltex · #25 (**permalink**) 04-20-2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Leader

Well I have two things to say about this, doesnt most churches preech to thier people "love God"? how can you love and fear god? And also when adam and eve bit into the apple of knowledge they were punished. How are you suppose to love a god that punishes you for learning?

Human perfection is impossable. Your right we should do every thing it says in the bible, we should force all women t be completly subservient, sorry hillary. We should burn down every house of worship that isnt a christian church. and finally we should kill any one who dares dispute creationism. Lose our salvation? as if the actions of one group effects the entire human race? a stupid arguement you hath brought upon this thread. Fear your creator? that is like fearing your father, shouldnt you love instead of fear? only despots and dictators need fear to stay in power. people want to pass exams because they know their future depends on it, if people were afraid of failure then people would never do any thing. People do not murder people because they fear reprocussion from the law, they don't kill because they have no reason to, killing is immoral to many bible weather or not the bible condones it or not. The only reason people believe god is because people fear him, no, they fear "it". A bunch of soothsayers got together and told every one that they speak for god and thier actions are pure no matter what they do, and any one who objects will burn in hell by "its" wrath. Any one can create a religion, all you need to do is make up one or 2 believeable stories, preech a message of hope, and if any one disagrees tell your followers that hell awaits dissenters.

but now that i have debunked your comment, now i can give you my opinion about how the bible is not "reason as you put it. All it does is preech reason, it's extremely arrogant to think the bible in its self is reason. its common sense and common decency to not steal and kill, every one knows that regardless of religious affiliation. you can find many quotes from people preeching common sense in the bible, but does that mean with out god those words would be meaningless? common sense is what the bible preeches, and it is inforced with the idea of obey it or burn, this type of fear mongering i can't stand, especialy on such a global scale.

Also here is an Interesting site I found on the web: Strange things in the Bible

If you liked that site, try this one:
Skeptic's Annotated Bible / Quran / Book of Mormon

Everything you've ever needed to shoot down religious arguments; ironically their own holy books.

Nash · #26 (**permalink**) 04-20-2008, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordechai

So basically, you guess... Thanks for letting me know. Out of curiosity, in your opinion, what's the difference between lord, Lord, and LORD when it appears in the bible?

no I dont guess.. well maybe it might seem that way, i do study, and i guess thats how i arrive at a decision doing deep studing i believe rabbis priest and imams do the same for if we did not then knowledge would be stale and knowledge that God gives has meanings that run real deep so if after studing scipture i come to a meaning of a verse it does not mean that is the only meaning however if it helps people to understand better have a better understanding of God then that meaning is not from me its from God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpetroaca

Would you care to share with us the logic behind the proof?

well if we look at the earth and the universe and the laws that it follows, even our own bodies follow a law, we as the highest form of intellegence on earth set laws up for ourselves. If with that same intellect we was to look at ourselves we know that we did not create ourselves. As complex as the human body is we can not even create anything like it, however from studing the body we can come to many great inventions. And only by studing nature can mankind truly advance, the earth is our source of knowledge where by studing it we become more intellegent.Our own intellect should look at what we are studing and see that we did not make it who made it would be the most logical question. And who ever did make this knowledge for us to learn from must be supreme in knowledge.

Quote:

And which God are you referring to?

the God of Moses, Abraham Jesus and Muhammad. the one true God... God who needs no daughters or sons.

Quote:

What is the reason God created humans according to the bible/koran/torah ?

to seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave.

Quote:

The relation creator-creation is from a logical standpoint very interdependent . True , the creation is obviously the most affected , since it came into existence , but the creator is also affected , since the information aquired through the creation process didn't exist before the creation , information which was added to his state after the creation.

in my opinion your almost there the creator is not affected. for the creation always existed with the creator.

Quote:

Besides that , God can never be described as "alpha and the omega"

I agree, God has no beginning or an end but we do

Santa_Claus · #27 (**permalink**) 04-20-2008, 10:42 PM

Hebrews 6:4 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

2 Peter 2:20 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning."

Hebrews 10:29 "Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"

Romans 11:22 "Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."

Matthew 10:22 "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."

Turning your back on God and going BACK to sinning means there is no more forgiveness for you. So if you are truly saved, DON'T FALL AWAY. STAY STEAD FAST WITH THE LORD AND OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS UNTIL THE END.

THIS IS A DYING TEMPORARY WORLD! DON'T THROW AWAY THE PROMISE!

Santa_Claus · #28 (**permalink**) 04-20-2008, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

Believing in god is not reason, its faith.

Not exactly. People have plenty of experiences in life and knowledge of what goes on in the world to confirm to themselves the Bible is total truth. Real science confirmed to me that even totally widespread knowledge can be a widespread lie. Evolution and the big bang are complete frauds.

Mordechai · #29 (**permalink**) 04-21-2008, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santa_Claus

Not exactly. People have plenty of experiences in life and knowledge of what goes on in the world to confirm to themselves the Bible is total truth.

Have you read the bible?

Nash · #30 (**permalink**) 04-21-2008, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santa_Claus

Not exactly. People have plenty of experiences in life and knowledge of what goes on in the world to confirm to themselves the Bible is total truth. Real science confirmed to me that even totally widespread knowledge can be a widespread lie. Evolution and the big bang are complete frauds.

this is not a statement of one who believes in God. you tod me that you "got saved" and now your a christian well even in your own life you have evolved from what you was to christian. Hel even us as humans evolve, we were once a sperm then we mixed with an egg to become a fetus, then we evolved into a baby, then from that world in te womb we was born into a world that we never knew existed(maybe thats why we cry at first when we come out) then from a baby we evolved in to a child ,then we evolved into a man woman, and you deny evolution when your own life starts with a bang. As far as darwin goes the hell with him im no monkey!! As far as humans go we evolve every day our minds evolve from discovering fire to making airplanes we evolve.