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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Santa_Claus View Post
Again, skeptics will take the Bible completely out of the context in which it is written. And scientists haven't conclusively proven how the Earth was formed, how old it is, how man came to be.
I'm not going to spend an hour compiling all the information about the formation of the earth into a post. The information is out there, all you need to is look for it.

As for the contradictions in the bible. They are not taken out of context at all.

I'll do a quick summary of this for you:

Our source material will be the books of Matthew and Luke from the New testament of the bible. Specifically about how and when Jesus was born:

The story according to Matthew:
1) A woman named Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit
2) Joseph thinks Mary cheated on him, and is about to break off their engagement, until the holy spirit appears to him in a dream and tells him not to
3) Mary gives birth to Joshua Ben Josef (Jesus) in Bethlehem
4) Three astrologers (Wise men) saw a bright star in the sky and believed it a sign that the king of the Jews was born, and journeyed westward to Bethlehem to pay tribute.
5) King Herod the Great pretended to help them in order to get information about the boy whom he hoped to eliminate, as he was killing all the born boys at this time. He asked the wise men to return from Bethlehem and tell him what they had found.
6) At Josef's house in Bethlehem the find Jesus and pay tribute. They are warned by a dream, and skip the return to Herod by going a different route back east.
7) Herod still fearful of a child born to rise against him, massacres all the boys under two years old in Bethlehem, but Josef is warned by yet another dream and flees to Egypt with his family before the massacre, and stays there until Herod dies.

Now the story according to Luke:
1) Mary and the mother of John the Baptist are pregnant together, and are said to be related to each other.
2) God sends an angel to Mary and tells her that she will bear gods son
3) There is a great Roman census being taken at this time. Although Joseph lived in Nazareth, as a member of the House of David, he had to journey to Bethlehem in order to be registered.
4) Upon arrival in Bethlehem there is no room in the inn, so they must stay in the manger
5) Angels tell some shepherds of the birth, and the come visit Jesus in the manger.
6) Josef and company then journeyed to Jerusalem to give thanks in the temple, after which they returned north again the home in Galilee.

Ok, do you see the MASSIVE contradictions?

I'll go over one that is not so obvious, and some description makes more apparent:

From historical documents, we know when Herod died, we know when he ruled, and we know a rough time sketch in which Matthew's story could have occurred if you believe the story it tells. King Herod died in 4 B.C. So if we accept Matthews account, Jesus was born some time before Herod died, probably around 6 B.C.

Luke is very specific when informing us that the birth took place in the year of the Augustan census when Cyrenius was governor of Syria. From other ancient sources, we can pinpoint that date at the year 7 A. D.

So one book tells us he was born in ~ 6 B.C., the other tells us he was born in 7 A.D.

Contradiction!!!!

If god was omniscient, he would know that he contradicted himself. This PROVES conclusively that the bible is not divine.
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 09:42 PM
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Point of interest, the New Testament was written from oral stories to written word. Hence, there will be differences and sometimes, contradictions. In this case, it really isn't a contradiction, it is likely that he was born around 7 or 6 B.C, what you would want to do is find out when the star was in the sky, how long Joseph and Mary stayed in Bethlehem, how many months pregnant was she when she arrived in Bethlehem, etc, etc.
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Kazikli Bey View Post
Point of interest, the New Testament was written from oral stories to written word. Hence, there will be differences and sometimes, contradictions. In this case, it really isn't a contradiction, it is likely that he was born around 7 or 6 B.C, what you would want to do is find out when the star was in the sky, how long Joseph and Mary stayed in Bethlehem, how many months pregnant was she when she arrived in Bethlehem, etc, etc.
A 13 year difference is no small point. Them living in two different towns is no small point. Them going to Egypt to hide out or returning home is no small point.

They all prove one thing: The bible is written by man, with no divine intervention. It is not written, nor directed by god. It is nothing but a story book.
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Caltex View Post
A 13 year difference is no small point. Them living in two different towns is no small point. Them going to Egypt to hide out or returning home is no small point.

They all prove one thing: The bible is written by man, with no divine intervention. It is not written, nor directed by god. It is nothing but a story book.
Sorry, mis-read the AD part, my bad

But yes, you are correct in saying that it was written by man and man only. All i said was that the main reason that the New Testament is so outta whack is because they were transcribed from word of mouth stories which, over time, do begin to vary quite a bit.
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Kazikli Bey View Post
Sorry, mis-read the AD part, my bad

But yes, you are correct in saying that it was written by man and man only. All i said was that the main reason that the New Testament is so outta whack is because they were transcribed from word of mouth stories which, over time, do begin to vary quite a bit.
They were also written by Hellinized Jews (ala not ones in Palestine) in Greek (the language) around 40-70 years after the estimated death of Jesus.

The folk lore story (probably not true, but still funny) is that the scholars who created our 0 point in history got that year by averaging the possible birth years of Jesus. 7 B.C. to 7 A.D. range, what the hell let's average it!!

I would equate their historical accuracy to that of a story like the Illiad. While Jesus could have been born sometime around then, and maybe did indeed lead a cult around that time, the rest is folk lore. Like Athena and the other Greek gods intervening in the battle of Troy.
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Caltex View Post
They were also written by Hellinized Jews (ala not ones in Palestine) in Greek (the language) around 40-70 years after the estimated death of Jesus.

I would equate their historical accuracy to that of a story like the Illiad. While Jesus could have been born sometime around then, and maybe did indeed lead a cult around that time, the rest is folk lore. Like Athena and the other Greek gods intervening in the battle of Troy.
IDK, i think the main reason there are so many inaccuracies is a) word of mouth, and b) the translation of the stories from Palestinian/Hebrew to Greek. I think it is more probable that Jesus did live around the time, and did do many of the things in the Bible, but i also believe that many are exaggerated due to the whole world of mouth system which does tend to leave a story a little bit varied and inflated.
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2008, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Kazikli Bey View Post
IDK, i think the main reason there are so many inaccuracies is a) word of mouth, and b) the translation of the stories from Palestinian/Hebrew to Greek. I think it is more probable that Jesus did live around the time, and did do many of the things in the Bible, but i also believe that many are exaggerated due to the whole world of mouth system which does tend to leave a story a little bit varied and inflated.
Well you've just said it. The bible is written by men. Because of that it is nothing but a story book. It has no authority.
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2008, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Santa_Claus View Post
The Bible is without any contradictions. I have yet to find any honest contradictions in the Bible at all. Only a person born of the spirit will be able to understand the Bible.
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14
Then who was Jesus?
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2008, 10:00 AM
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You are an idiot.

You cannot argue for god's existence.

The whole point of every religion is belief.

There is no evidence, anywhere. If there were, there would be no reason for belief. God's existence would be evident.

Belief, or writing about belief, does not constitute evidence.

Scripture is not evidence.

Furthermore, you cannot claim the bible to be the word of god. Many parts are actually credited to human writers.
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2008, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Taffd View Post
You are an idiot.

You cannot argue for god's existence.

The whole point of every religion is belief.

There is no evidence, anywhere. If there were, there would be no reason for belief. God's existence would be evident.

Belief, or writing about belief, does not constitute evidence.

Scripture is not evidence.

Furthermore, you cannot claim the bible to be the word of god. Many parts are actually credited to human writers.
Careful with personal attacks, you could get banned for them.
Sure you can argue for God's existence. Evidence is all around. Everything came together perfectly for the existence of life on Earth. One half of a human being is a mirror reflection of the other half. Humans can't even create life unless they have sex. If life can come by chance, how come we haven't been able to create any? Its an established fact that life can only come from other life.
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