Pluto

Modern capitalism is based on the rule that only if you work you can get things. In modern capitalism you are not entitled to anything without working. There are no inborn entitlements to anything. But in my opinion this rule is wrong.

Why isn't it possible to let everyone have what he needs without working? Will it discourage people from working at all?

JimmyFord

Well, your idea is a bad one for multiple reasons. The first is that a welfare state gets abused constantly. The people hooked on the welfare state have no drive to get unhooked or become self supporting. A system encouraging a lack of responsibility for ones self and acting like a child forever is a poor system at that. Government is not your mom and dad part 2.

Now the second problem is that it requires a massive government. The size of government increases with the amount of people dependent on it. Imagine how many people become dependent on a welfare state. Now imagine how big government would become to support them. You do realize what happens when you have a huge government with the people dependent on their existance right?

The third problem is a moral one. In order to have a class of non working citizens, you must have a class of working citizens. Somebody has to do the work. This is not fair to FORCE workers to pay for non workers. If nobody worked, nothing would happen. If I work, why should I be FORCED to support somebody who doesn't? If I CHOOSE to help them/support them, that is fine. In fact, I encourage whoever has the ability to help your fellow citizen as much as possible. That is something that should only be done by CHOICE though, never by force. That voids the whole concept of freedom.

Pluto

Ok so those who work will get a bonus for it. They will get more resources than those who don't work. Those who do more difficult jobs will also get more.

But still it's morally unjust to let those who don't work or maybe can't work to simply suffer and die because of lack of resources. Also raw materials aren't created by anyone. People only work to retrieve them and process them.

Nash

WHAT A LAZY COUCH POTATOE STATEMENT!!!!

anya

I think in the mid 80's this was given some consideration in the UK. This was the time of high unemployment and the idea was to give everyone a basic amount which would cover the basics. It would be similar to what we give on Jobseekers Allowance now - that is around £60 I think. The idea was that everyone could get it as a right and then work as they wished to get extras. It was decided it would demand too high taxes from those that worked more.

It was I think also suggested in Andre Gortz book Paths to Paradise. Again at the time of high unemployment. He saw it as the way we could move forward from a Marxist point of view.

As there were not so many jobs, he thought we could enjoy more free time for free, conscious, creative activity. Work need no longer be the main thing in our lives or if it was it could be more of this kind of activity.

I think this sort of approach would only be considered in times of high unemployment and probably from people who believed in what I believe are the more spiritual aspects of Marxist's work.

The idea would not be to be a couch potato but to be involved in things that your heart truly believed in.

The Lying Dutchman

sure people would be working perhaps, but a country that implements this system will be worth nothing in the international domain where all compete to produce the best quality-wise. you have to stimulate competition internally in order to compete on the global market.
think of argentina where they over funded their national industries: the industries became lazy and argentina lost competitive strength resulting in an economic crisis.

Shiva_TD

If no body is working who is going to produce what we need?

Of course I like the idea. I need a new Mercedes and I would certianly perfer to have someone give me one than to have to work for it. Oh well, I don't believe that is likely to happen so I will go to work agian tomorrow. <sigh>