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03-28-2008, 02:30 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash
IF religion and politics dont go hand and hand then why judges , presidents, governors, and congressmen, all swear on either a BIBLE or a QURAN.
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Actually they don't have to. A simple oath or affirmation is all that is required.
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And our money yup it says in GOD WE TRUST.
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Because religious zealots managed to scrounge up enough votes in Congress to put it there. It was not originally on US money.
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Also what led to genocides was colonism of the middle east. This country of USA was founded on religious principles, what do you say at the end of your oath?? SO HELP ME GOD Also if you didnt know the constitution is set up to be demolished if another constitution can take its place this leaves opening for religious constitution!
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Another false statement. The United States was intentionally established as a secular state which was one of the greatest accomplishments of the time. Prior to that all nations were believed to under the authority of god.
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03-28-2008, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiva_TD
I wonder what your logic is for such a statement.
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If the universe were static and eternal, the light irradiated by all the stars would've reached us and the heat they emanate would've made the entire universe as hot as the Sun, so life on Earth could not possibly exist. That hasn't happened, so the universe had a beginning.
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03-28-2008, 07:03 PM
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Reeve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr House
If the universe were static and eternal, the light irradiated by all the stars would've reached us and the heat they emanate would've made the entire universe as hot as the Sun, so life on Earth could not possibly exist. That hasn't happened, so the universe had a beginning.
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Excuse me?
Do you realize the the great distances from other stars to our little blue dot?
It takes, at least 8 minutes for the light from the sun to reach us hear. It takes millions of years for the light from Alpha Centari to reach us. But thats not even the thing that you messed up the most.
The universe, besides those planets and suns filled with oxygen or nitrogen, theres no way the heat could make such a long distance and still retain heat. Heat is caused by friction, which is why when an asteroid or shuttle is heading to Earth it passes through our atmosphere and essentially scrapes against it. the friciton caused by entering the atmo creates heat. Space is cold and desolate.
I'm not saying heat doesnt move througout the universe, but its not heat like your saying. Its a radioactive heat that burns the skin and blood, but not a heat from, say, fire.
I believe the universe has always been here, in one form or another. not sure what that is, but i'm not claiming to know any more what i say.
__________________
"For every man there is a purpose he sets up in his life, let yours be the doing of all good deeds." - Qur'an
Give every man your ear, but few thy voice. Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.[Hamlet] -Shakespeare, William
Where there is doubt, there is freedom -Latin Proverb
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03-28-2008, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash
wheres your proof for that you sound like bruno bauer
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I'm no Bruno Bauer but since we can literally trace the creation of the "God of Abraham" to less than 3000 years ago by men to simple make that statement really requires no additional proof.
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Once your mind is made up not to believe then you wont believe. The earth and the universe is enough substantial evidence that one needs. It is clear that there is a creating force behind the making of the universe and earth this is God . You choose to reject that
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Actually all of the evidence points to a universe originating from natural causes and no evidence points to supernatural causes.
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This is so amazing how so many of you guys sound just like bruno bauer, however religion and politics go hand and hand. Islam in spain for over 900 years till the crusades and the country was just fine.
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In one sense this is true. Up until the origin of the United States all government's used a belief in god as the authority for their power. The United States was truly the first nation to break from that mold and declare that governments obtained their power from the People and not from god.
This is the greatest argument against those that continually say that the United States was based upon a religious belief (i.e. founded upon Christianity) because it was deliberately NOT founded upon religion. It was founded upon the belief that all governments are instruments of the People and not of God.
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03-29-2008, 12:28 AM
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Earl
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It should also be added that most of the founders had Deistic tendencies, not devout Christian ones. That is the belief in a supernatural, but NOT one that is involved in worldly affairs. Others respected the morals of Christianity, but rejected it's fundamental belief if Jesus as the son of god, and an omni-benevolent deity.
Thomas Jefferson the primary writer of the Declaration of Independence adhered to his own, modified bible that removed the resurrection of Jesus, the virgin birth, etc. Basically he removed any part that was concerned with a supernatural. (Agnostic maybe?)
Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
James Madison, the primary writer of the Constitution had strongly Atheistic tendencies, and was absolute on his belief in the separation of Church and state. Some Madison quotes on Religion and the state:
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
"Congress should not establish a religion, and enforce the legal observation of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any Manner contrary to their conscience."
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprize, every expanded prospect."
How about another favorite founding father, Benjamin Franklin a complete Deist. The religion of Benjamin Franklin, founding father
How about another, John Adams, a unitarian. That is, the belief that rejected the divinity of Jesus, the trinity, etc. Something that says it all:
"John Adams, the second U.S. President rejected the Trinity... and became a Unitarian. It was during Adams' presidency that the Senate ratified the Treaty of Peace and Friendship with Tripoli, which states in Article XI that:
As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion - as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen, - and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arrising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. (Charles I. Bevans, ed. Treaties and Other International Agreements of the United States of America 1776-1949. Vol. 11: Philippines-United Arab Republic. Washington D.C.: Department of State Publications, 1974, p. 1072)."
The religion of John Adams, second U.S. President
I think that about sums it up.
Last edited by Caltex : 03-29-2008 at 12:38 AM.
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03-29-2008, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResidentAtheist
Excuse me?
Do you realize the the great distances from other stars to our little blue dot?
It takes, at least 8 minutes for the light from the sun to reach us hear. It takes millions of years for the light from Alpha Centari to reach us. But thats not even the thing that you messed up the most.
The universe, besides those planets and suns filled with oxygen or nitrogen, theres no way the heat could make such a long distance and still retain heat. Heat is caused by friction, which is why when an asteroid or shuttle is heading to Earth it passes through our atmosphere and essentially scrapes against it. the friciton caused by entering the atmo creates heat. Space is cold and desolate.
I'm not saying heat doesnt move througout the universe, but its not heat like your saying. Its a radioactive heat that burns the skin and blood, but not a heat from, say, fire.
I believe the universe has always been here, in one form or another. not sure what that is, but i'm not claiming to know any more what i say.
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I dunno, man, I'm just paraphrasing Stephen Hawking, I might've misread him. Pick up the universe in a nutshell, it has the explanation as to why the universe can't be static.
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03-29-2008, 06:37 AM
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Reeve
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 69
Location: Now, Stationed in the Air Force
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I have that book, please feel free to tell me exactly where that is so i can find out what he meant.
__________________
"For every man there is a purpose he sets up in his life, let yours be the doing of all good deeds." - Qur'an
Give every man your ear, but few thy voice. Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.[Hamlet] -Shakespeare, William
Where there is doubt, there is freedom -Latin Proverb
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03-29-2008, 06:54 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr House
I dunno, man, I'm just paraphrasing Stephen Hawking, I might've misread him. Pick up the universe in a nutshell, it has the explanation as to why the universe can't be static.
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I believe that you misunderstand what Hawking is saying. As a theoretical physicist the equations must still balance so while chaos and instability can exist it must be balanced with equal chaos and instability somewhere else. It is this "balancing" that takes physicist into the theory of multiple universes but, of course, the term mulitple universes merely represents the possible fact that our universe actually encompasses other dimensions. The universe as a whole, based upon such things as the string theory, would merely encompass many sub-universes such as our own.
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03-29-2008, 10:29 PM
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Knight
Libertarian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbloms
So out of all the thousands of gods in all of the universe we're discussing the Christian Lutheran god or what?
I'm confused by the first article. "Nothing just happens, it must have a cause."
Why is god here then? There has to be a cause that made him come into being.
And then the thing causing him come into being has to be caused by something.
And it has to be caused by somthing.
And then that has to be caused.
And another cause had to be made to make it.......
lol, i just think my mind curved inwards to oblivion. 
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God is eternal..infinite. We as human beings don't have the ability to comprehend infinity. Plus, God created the laws of physics.
__________________
"Good intentions are a noble thing, but you have to look at the end result to see if those intentions are well placed."
-- LessGovMrPrez
"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have."
-- Thomas Jefferson
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03-29-2008, 11:43 PM
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Knight
Libertarian
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Psalm 19:1 "The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handywork."
God proves His existence through his creation
Its clear that the universe was created by God. Evolution is such a joke, the notion that chance could form creatures that work as mega high tech bio machines that either side of which is a complete mirror reflection of the other half of their body. Don't run from the truth because the truth will still be the truth, God will judge everyone one day according to what they've done and just because it hasn't happened now doesn't mean it ain't coming.
__________________
"Good intentions are a noble thing, but you have to look at the end result to see if those intentions are well placed."
-- LessGovMrPrez
"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have."
-- Thomas Jefferson
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