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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2008, 09:42 AM
mikado mikado is offline
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Anarchism (aka no government) is in my opinion the best solution to government oppression and domination. In anarchism there are no countries or states which rule and oppress people. But in order for anarchism to work all the world needs to live within an anarchist system.

Unlike many observers of history, anarchists see a common thread behind most of mankind's problems: the state. In the 20th-century alone, states have murdered well over 100,000,000 human beings, whether in war, concentration camps, or man-made famine. And this is merely a continuation of a seemingly endless historical pattern: almost from the beginning of recorded history, governments have existed. Once they arose, they allowed a ruling class to live off the labor of the mass of ordinary people; and these ruling classes have generally used their ill-gotten gains to build armies and wage war to extend their sphere of influence. At the same time, governments have always suppressed unpopular minorities, dissent, and the efforts of geniuses and innovators to raise humanity to new intellectual, moral, cultural, and economic heights. By transferring surplus wealth from producers to the state's ruling elite, the state has often strangled any incentive for long-run economic growth and thus stifled humanity's ascent from poverty; and at the same time the state has always used that surplus wealth to cement its power.
Hi Pluto, I was wondering if you can name any successful examples of anarchist societies.

It seems to me that although it's true that states have killed hundreds of millions, those same states also gave the conditions for those same hundreds of millions to be born in the first place. Likewise, although governments do oppress, to some extent, those same governments also manage the systesm that allow you and me to sit here, tapping away at our computers, exchanging ideas. So be careful what you wish for
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2008, 10:40 AM
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Charlie_Harper Charlie_Harper is offline
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So anarchism could not work?
I very much doubt it. If everybody took to the streets with fork and knives in their hand, eventually people would form groups and one elite group would effectively rule over another, thus ending anarchy.
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Old 03-11-2008, 11:52 AM
Twilightsfire Twilightsfire is offline
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It seems to me Darfur is a good example of anarchy at work.

Personally, anarchy is another version of survival of the fittest, and in a bad way.

The one who shoots first and hits usually wins.
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Old 03-11-2008, 12:32 PM
Pluto Pluto is offline
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It seems to me Darfur is a good example of anarchy at work.

Personally, anarchy is another version of survival of the fittest, and in a bad way.

The one who shoots first and hits usually wins.
Anarchism presumes that humans are inherently good and will get along and behave well without government. Anarchism is optimistic about human nature. I think most humans are inherently good, but their inherent goodness won't protect them from the remainder who aren't. Anarchism might leave the individual prey to anyone who is stronger, which will lead to formation of gangs for self-protection, which will in turn lead to the formation of states.

Under anarchy, it is conceivable that e.g. a brutal gang might use its superior might to coerce everyone else to do as they wish. With nothing more powerful than the gang, there would (definitionally) be nothing to stop them. But how does this differ from what we have now? Governments rule because they have the might to maintain their power; in short, because there is no superior agency to restrain them.

This argument is confused on several levels. First, it covertly defines anarchy as unrestrained rule of the strongest, which is hardly what most anarchists have in mind.
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Old 03-11-2008, 12:51 PM
The Lying Dutchman The Lying Dutchman is offline
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Originally Posted by Pluto View Post
Anarchism presumes that humans are inherently good and will get along and behave well without government. Anarchism is optimistic about human nature. I think most humans are inherently good, but their inherent goodness won't protect them from the remainder who aren't. Anarchism might leave the individual prey to anyone who is stronger, which will lead to formation of gangs for self-protection, which will in turn lead to the formation of states.

Under anarchy, it is conceivable that e.g. a brutal gang might use its superior might to coerce everyone else to do as they wish. With nothing more powerful than the gang, there would (definitionally) be nothing to stop them. But how does this differ from what we have now? Governments rule because they have the might to maintain their power; in short, because there is no superior agency to restrain them.

This argument is confused on several levels. First, it covertly defines anarchy as unrestrained rule of the strongest, which is hardly what most anarchists have in mind.
indeed there is no real power above the seperate nation-states (except new institutionalism perhaps in a sense), and governments can in a certain way do what they want..the strong that is.

it could be man is 'good' but for anarchism all have to be good at all times.
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Old 03-11-2008, 03:01 PM
Pluto Pluto is offline
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Anarchism can probably not exist in today's advanced, industrial societies because people in these societies are already socially conditioned to crave power and money.

Anarchism is the perfect way to live, but sadly, falls into the same catergory as communism in the eyes of the US and other capitalist world powers. We are told to belive that anarchism is a bad thing, but most do not know what it means. It has been assigned it's negative connotation (pure chaos) by governments worldwide, in order to preserve the system. The system of discrimination and hatred, which is leading you deeper and deeper down the dark road of oppression and subjugation.

If it were a perfect world, anarchism might work. But then again, if it were a perfect world, most other governments (like communism for example) would work just as well. As we all know, it's not a perfect world, and won't ever be a perfect world.
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Old 03-11-2008, 04:20 PM
The Lying Dutchman The Lying Dutchman is offline
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Anarchism can probably not exist in today's advanced, industrial societies because people in these societies are already socially conditioned to crave power and money.

Anarchism is the perfect way to live, but sadly, falls into the same catergory as communism in the eyes of the US and other capitalist world powers. We are told to belive that anarchism is a bad thing, but most do not know what it means. It has been assigned it's negative connotation (pure chaos) by governments worldwide, in order to preserve the system. The system of discrimination and hatred, which is leading you deeper and deeper down the dark road of oppression and subjugation.

If it were a perfect world, anarchism might work. But then again, if it were a perfect world, most other governments (like communism for example) would work just as well. As we all know, it's not a perfect world, and won't ever be a perfect world.
anarchy shows somewhat resemblence to communism in the sense that it believes in the complete equality of thoughts in all our heads. the thing is we're not the same and this inequality creates the realization that someone other than me can be out to kill me, so i need to protect myself as efficient as possible.
anarchy in the positive way is an ideal, but we see no way to realize it. we have to deal with the fact that we're different and that the state contract is the best resolution for peace for some at this period in time.
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Old 03-11-2008, 07:00 PM
TokenLiberal TokenLiberal is offline
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I definitely see a lot of misconceptions about anarchism here. I understand them, because until I started taking a bunch of political philosophy classes I thought the same thing, and I still do for the most part.

I suggest you guys look up "anarcho-capitalism," though (Murray Rothbard is its most notable proponent). It's a really interesting system that shows that the most extreme form of capitalism is anarchy, and Rothbard tries to demonstrate that such a society is feasible. I'm not entirely convinced (I can't say I've read THAT much into it), but I've met some really intelligent people who do buy into it, so there must be something there.

If that doesn't do it for you, check out some Robert Nozick, whom I mentioned earlier. His 'minarchism', or minimal-state government, definitely seems feasible, though I'm not sure if it would be better. It's pretty close to anarchy, but not quite. If anyone's interested in this topic and seeing the more advanced, philosophical forms of anarchism, definitely look these guys up! There's a lot more to it than punk rock kids, like I used to think
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2008, 10:43 AM
Pluto Pluto is offline
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I think humans are greedy and authoritarian in nature. We like to dominate and control others if it ensures our survival and happiness. We make laws (like laws which prohibit poor people to immigrate to the united states) which secure only our own individual survival and which serve and further only our own selfish desires and interests without care and concern to the well-being and freedom of other humans. We have also embraced social darwinism - the belief that life should be a cruel struggle for survival and that only the strong and fit survive and succeed.

There are also too many "followers" in this world, way too many. They yearn to be lead; they become giddy when in the presence of their chosen leader they swallow his every word, and feel lost without him. This apparently is also hard-wired into a large portion of the human race. It's not an easy life for those few inclined neither to lead nor to follow.

And expecting that evolution will someday change this is a rather hopeless hope: evolution has no goal other than survival.

Last edited by Pluto : 03-12-2008 at 10:52 AM.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2008, 10:53 AM
The Lying Dutchman The Lying Dutchman is offline
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i am basing my interpretation of anarchy on the state of nature of Hobbes. i thought that is the form of anarchy we're talking about.

complete capitalism would be an anarchic situation, but we dont have it. economic intersts are still steered by national interest, so active government.

will look into those names, never heard of minarchism
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