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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2008, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by John Murphy View Post
No I am still saying that I do not believ in evolution, I still don't see it. I am asking you to prove to me by pointing out the transgression. All you have shown is species that are similar.
You based your argument against evolution on a faulty premise: that a distinct species evolves within a few thousand years. That's not what the theory of evolution is. So you can't argue against the theory of evolution, if you cannot even state what the theory of evolution is.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2008, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by John Murphy View Post
As I have said before prove this to me, show me that these species are not just similar. Where is the transgression from one species to another. As I have said before what you people are stating is a THEORY, well my THEORY is what you think what we evolved from is actually a different species with just some similarities.
I have shown links to transitional species in my previous post, including Fish to Amphibians, Amphibians to Reptiles, and Reptiles to Mammals. If you would go out and actually research it, instead of listening to the empty rhetoric of some creationist, you would see that we have found many transitional species.

Your "theory", which really barely qualifies for a hypothesis is based on no logical observations, but rather wild speculations. You're saying we should ignore all the fossil evidence that shows a slow and gradual change from an ancient ape like creature into modern humans and instead just say, hey we evolved from something else!
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2008, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by John Murphy View Post
As I have said before prove this to me, show me that these species are not just similar. Where is the transgression from one species to another. As I have said before what you people are stating is a THEORY, well my THEORY is what you think what we evolved from is actually a different species with just some similarities.
Hehe, the difference is that ours is a scientific theory. One that has been confirmed many times already, while your theory is hardly anything scientific.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2008, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by emptypepsi View Post
You seem to be operating under the common misconception that Humans "evolved from apes", when that is ridiculous and not what the evolution theory states at all. The idea is that we all (that is apes and humans) evolved from a common ancestor. Our enviroments dictated our adaptations and eventual evolving to suit those environments.

Australopithecines came from that common ancestor (they are of course the earlier form of what would become human) and had to adapt to life differently than other groups of the same ancestor, who adapted to life in tree dwelling habitats. This is evolution. Nobody has seriously held that we "came from apes" and "apes just haven't caught up yet" as you implicitly posit.
I know this wasn't for me but i have a question about it. (I'm not for or against evolution in this argument, just a spectator). What sort of environmental factors led to humans evolving the way we did and how come apes didn't evolve in the same way? Have we always been different to apes or was it something else that caused our evolution to be different?
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2008, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Kazikli Bey View Post
I know this wasn't for me but i have a question about it. (I'm not for or against evolution in this argument, just a spectator). What sort of environmental factors led to humans evolving the way we did and how come apes didn't evolve in the same way? Have we always been different to apes or was it something else that caused our evolution to be different?
I am really no expert on this, but a theory I have heard of is that the branch of the humans conquered the prairie habitat, while the ape branches stayed with the woods.

I am not sure if this is still the standard theory nowadays, but thats what we learned in school at least.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2008, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
I am really no expert on this, but a theory I have heard of is that the branch of the humans conquered the prairie habitat, while the ape branches stayed with the woods.

I am not sure if this is still the standard theory nowadays, but thats what we learned in school at least.
They teach you guys in Europe a hell of a lot more then they teach us in the US. Then again here there is a lot of resistance to teaching evolution. I knew humans evolved on plains rather then the forest although I never really considered that a factor for why we are more intelligent. Given the predators that humans would have to compete against though I'm not surpised.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2008, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Vandal View Post
They teach you guys in Europe a hell of a lot more then they teach us in the US. Then again here there is a lot of resistance to teaching evolution. I knew humans evolved on plains rather then the forest although I never really considered that a factor for why we are more intelligent. Given the predators that humans would have to compete against though I'm not surpised.
You must go to school in Kansas. We learned plenty in grade school about evolution in California.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2008, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
I am really no expert on this, but a theory I have heard of is that the branch of the humans conquered the prairie habitat, while the ape branches stayed with the woods.

I am not sure if this is still the standard theory nowadays, but thats what we learned in school at least.
Well, if that's true, did being omnivores become an evolutionary stage as well?

Because, i know that apes are frugivores but humans eat all types of food, so im wondering if maybe that was evolutionary or if it has always been so.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2008, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Caltex View Post
You must go to school in Kansas. We learned plenty in grade school about evolution in California.
Close. Missouri.

I'm not ignorant of evolution, I probably know more then the average person at least, but I don't have school to thank for it.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2008, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Vandal View Post
They teach you guys in Europe a hell of a lot more then they teach us in the US. Then again here there is a lot of resistance to teaching evolution. I knew humans evolved on plains rather then the forest although I never really considered that a factor for why we are more intelligent. Given the predators that humans would have to compete against though I'm not surpised.
Right. On the open savanna there was great advantage to standing upright so that one could see long distances over the tops of the tall grasses. This in turn freed up hands, no longer being used at all for walking or for swinging through trees, to be used for a lot of new things, such as making and manipulating tools.
Also, not a particularly powerful or swift animal, Australopithecus and his descendants would've been social animals, living in the relative safety of a group, just as his ancestors in the forest before him did and as primates still do. The forebrain is where social complexities are handled, so it had already developed more than most other mammalian brains. The freeing up of the hands opened up more possibilities for those with the forebrain to really make use of those hands. It took many many many generations, but the descendants of those with brains just a little bit bigger (in the forebrain area) survived in larger numbers than those with not so large brains.
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