WORLD UNITE - Page 4 - Political Forum

atheistwoody · 02-28-2008, 10:29 AM

Christianity= the belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree

Locke9-05 · 02-28-2008, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atheistwoody

Yes I will die and my hardwork will have been for nothing. There is no point to living, but that doesnt mean I want to die either. I enjoy certain parts of my life.

You will die too and your hardwork will have been for nothing.

Religion asks questions,
Atheism answers them.

I believe that there is more than death. By the way, that comment of yours was very ironic--your tone was that of an omniscient figure--telling me what comes after death as if you know it for fact (despite that it is something that cannot be answered by any living human being). What a hypocritical comment.

Locke9-05 · 02-28-2008, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ResidentAtheist

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Being an admirer of John Locker im sure you've looked at other quotes as well, no doubt you've heard this before.

You take two people from history, who had control of an entire nation (two of the largest nations in the world) and blame an idea on the millions of people they killed. They had control of a gov't with the power to do what ever they wished. If you can use that logic, than i can use the fact that Hitler was a devout catholic who believed god spoke to him and told him to kill the jews and lead his master race. Hitler was deranged and by all means evil. the fact that he believed so much in religion and your god didnt help matters. He twisted facts to his liking just as the Islamic Extremists do today.

Lets start naming murders done in the name of god shall we;
The Crusades - wars done in the name of god for the chosen land and the chosen people
The Salem Witch Trial - Killings done by ignorance and fear in the name of god
WWII - Amongst the hundereds of reasons on why Hitler was able to lead about the greatest mass murder in human history he was a christian and believed he was doing the work of god.
Various Middle East wars - the middle east is a religious war torn geographical region. Shites and Sunnis murder eachother because they can't decide on who is the rightful leader of Islam, which family descendent of Muhhammed is in charge.
Isreal and Gaza Strip - The Jews again. Racist ignorance brought on by generations of religious teaching have caused too many wars between Israel and Palenstien (sp?). And the holy city.
Should i go on?

I could name hundreds of big and small battles where the people responsible believed they were doing the work of god. whats the difference between these wars and conflicts and Hitler and Mao Zedong? They believed with out restriction that they were doing the work of god. Those two gov't leaders MIGHT have been atheists but they controlled gov'ts and as i said before, absolute power corrupts absolutely. They never once said they were killing millions of people in the name of Atheism.

You're a little misguided? how is that against forum rules. I simply said you didnt know as much about what you spoke about as you thought you did. It was not an attack by such cheap standards as name calling, i was stating the fact that you didnt know what you were saying.

The bible was written by god through man, at least thats what millions of humans believe. They believe the bible is the work of god who worked through the authors.

Science doesnt look for philosophical answers as your religion might, but it looks for the answers as to why the world and the universe is the way it is.
Unlike religion, science doesnt hide from different view points and unfavorable answers. Atheism, unlike religion, does not have a doctrine to follow that can be mistreated and twsted. Atheism doesnt make people kill others in the name of Atheism. It is a way of life, for those without a god/gods to live free of religion. we don't teach or children or friends sacred documents that when written were racist and 'misguided'

You could say you bible and religion teaches morality, but you worship a bible 2000 years old that against human rights denies homosexuals to marry, teaches bigoted moral teachings. your bible says to stone people who work on sundays, how many people have you stoned today. Do you love your god more than your mother and father. would you kill them if they say they didnt believe in god? well, thats a moral guideline taught by your bible.
we could go on all day long, and all day long i will keep saying your misinformed and unknowing of this topic. so yes, i would say your a little misguided because your are clearly blinded by your faith.

Why don't you do some reading and research, instead of talking to people in an irritatingly condescending tone--when ironically your attempted "rebuttal" is completely incorrect and uninformed at best

Here's an interesting article, written by a professor at the University of Georgia:

History News Network - Atheism

ResidentAtheist · 02-28-2008, 12:01 PM

Sorry for such the long posts, but you all post a lot in 12 hours, lol.

One last thing; The bible may teach morality but when that morality says to kill when does it become wrong? And how can i live with a traditional morality when i haven't believed in god for years?
A few questions to ponder.

atheistwoody · 02-28-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke9-05

I believe that there is more than death. By the way, that comment of yours was very ironic--your tone was that of an omniscient figure--telling me what comes after death as if you know it for fact (despite that it is something that cannot be answered by any living human being). What a hypocritical comment.

Not really no

Thing is if I live my life,enjoy it and then die only to discover there is a god, im no worse off, infact its a cheeky bonus.

Whereas if i waste my time praying and lookin forward to heaven and then die, to find theres nothing, my life will have been wasted foolishly expecting to find paradise, when in reality i was already there.

Religious people tend to not live their life as good as they could do. They tend to be very normal unexciting people as they think it doesnt really matter what happens in this life, the next ones gonna rock.

If you want to be Christian and believe all that stuff then fine, but just dont waste this life thinking yout going to get another one.

Can I say for the record I would absolutely love it IF there was a God, if heaven and all that existed it would make things so much easier. But without proof I simply cant believe in it.

Wheeldog · 02-28-2008, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke9-05

..... No one individual is ever required to believe what another does and the suggestion that religion is being force fed to people really only applies to those people who are ignorant or weak enough to allow it to..

Gotta disagree. Advocates of religions have used the sword as much as prayer to gain converts. Insofar as praying for peace, fine. However, I suggest that take to heart the old saying, "praise the lord and pass the ammunition." In other words, prayer alone will not do it. It takes action, hard work and determination to get results. By the way, I have known many athiests, but I have never known any who tried to convert others away from their religion.

Locke9-05 · 02-29-2008, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheeldog

Gotta disagree. Advocates of religions have used the sword as much as prayer to gain converts. Insofar as praying for peace, fine. However, I suggest that take to heart the old saying, "praise the lord and pass the ammunition." In other words, prayer alone will not do it. It takes action, hard work and determination to get results. By the way, I have known many athiests, but I have never known any who tried to convert others away from their religion.

You're right, it seems they'd rather just eliminate those who have different beliefs than them and be done with it entirely. There are so many quotes throughout this topic coming from atheists such as: "I despise religion," I haven't seen one religious person come out and say "I hate atheism" or "atheists suck" or something incredibly judgmental like that. It's that same way everywhere--youtube, facebook, hell, it's like that in the real world too.

Locke9-05 · 02-29-2008, 01:44 AM

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Originally Posted by Bronze Medal

They also had mustasches, they also were European, they also were dictators, I'm not sure why your choosing 'atheism' as the trait that caused them to be murderers when there's so many others to choose from.

Okay... So the individuals--the people--responsible for the killings you associate for Christianity were wrong in what they did. Just as the individuals--the people--responsible for the killings I've associated with atheism were wrong in what they did. You can't blame it on religion. You can blame those who committed the crimes, but you can't blame religion. I also find it incredibly ironic that you can "blame" anyone or anything for any part of history--good or bad--considering your past advocacy of determinism and coinciding nihilism... I guess just when it fits the argument, huh? Then when it doesn't, all bets are off? Is that how it works?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronze Medal

Atheism is not a docterine, it's not even a belief technically it's the absence of belief (in God). Atheism didn't drive them to exterminate people, the fear of their people worshipping a higher power than themselves is what caused them to do it.

That's a huge cop-out. If you lack belief in God, there would be absolutely no reason to continue this pointless discussion arguing the "logic" of a figure you don't even believe in. So atheists who don't believe in God--they believe God doesn't exist-- are constantly trying to disprove some figure whom by the standards of their own lifestyle isn't supposed to even exist and they use biblical passages (which they would see as fiction) to support it and show how "illogical" God is--when as atheists, it's just supposed to be a given that God doesn't exist for them? Hold up a minute... That would be like some confused teenager who doesn't believe in Santa Clause (yet still has a fraction of doubt or uncertainty--the issue of subjectivity) trying to disprove Santa Clause using "The Night Before Christmas." It's utterly absurd. So even with that weak cop-out, it's supposed to be a given that God doesn't exist... So why then do atheists feel the need to constantly defend and attempt to "prove" or explain/demonstrate the "logic" of their lifestyle? That makes absolutely zero sense

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronze Medal

Yes, in the cases I mentioned their actions were done explicitly in the name of their docterine, religion wasn't just some unrelated 'common trait', they made it clear the reason they performed their actions was for their religion, which Stalin and Pol Pot did not do in regards to atheism.

The individuals were responsible for killing those people... Nothing changes who the blame falls with. Someone could write a suicide letter, kill a bunch of people and in the letter blame a whole bunch of ideals, political policies, religious values, hell--they could even blame atheism. But who's responsible for killing those people again? Oh yeah... That's right. That person. Unless you're standing by your determinism theory--in which case it was "pre-determined" to occur and there was no way to prevent it anyway. There's no way you can logically pin the actual blame for this on Christianity and my "blaming" those Bolshevik revolution deaths on atheism was intended to demonstrate that no one's responsible but the people who commit the deeds themselves. It would seem, however, that the atheist side of this "debate" would much rather look for any underhanded way to shove blame, negative criticism and bigotry at religion--seemingly for no reason other than just... well, just to do it. You have no reason for this continued judgment. Judge the individuals who commit terrible acts, don't blame religion. I'm religious--I don't kill people. It seems many atheists here would be and are so quick to judge me though simply for being associated with religion. Fascinating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronze Medal

They weren't forcing atheism they were punishing people for believing in a higher power than themselves (which happens to leave only atheism as acceptable but only by default), it's not the same thing.

They were forcing people to adopt the atheist lifestyle. Your cop-outs have passed the point of ridiculousness... They may not have actually killed "in the name of atheism" but they killed people who did not appear to be faithless--atheists. You're splitting hairs to a ridiculous degree; attempting to manipulate the arguments and words to fit your side of this debate. Pretty low class.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronze Medal

They are responisble for their own actions, yes, but casuation and motivation is a different matter.

Define motivation. Someone could say a debate like this would motive them to fly into a "furious rage," harm a bunch of people and then blame it on the subject of the debate. It would be called "motivation" or "motive." So what? That doesn't really mean shit. It's still within the individual's control and it's the individual's complete responsibility. Once again, you're twisting the argument in any way so that you can criticize religion again and again and again. Endless judgment. Will you not just accept people and their differences? Doesn't seem like it...

atheistwoody · 02-29-2008, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke9-05

You're right, it seems they'd rather just eliminate those who have different beliefs than them and be done with it entirely. There are so many quotes throughout this topic coming from atheists such as: "I despise religion," I haven't seen one religious person come out and say "I hate atheism" or "atheists suck" or something incredibly judgmental like that. It's that same way everywhere--youtube, facebook, hell, it's like that in the real world too.

Perhaps people are starting to see through 2000 years of lies.

ResidentAtheist · 02-29-2008, 10:16 AM

You havent seen video's of fundementalist christians on Youtube or people on this site speaking badly of Atheist? How we are unmoral and devil worshippers?
The first day i was here i say at least three posts directly attacking my personal nonbelief.
There is no Atheist lifestyle. we don't have a doctrine, just a shared belief in...nonbelief. we don't have a church to go to or a bible to follow. there is no one set of rules that say how we act.
Yes, i despise religion, just as i despise big gov't. I believe absolute power corrupts absolutely. I've said this before, i despise anything which gives certain people too much power where they are able to twist and destroy a message and murder people in the name of something. Organized religion is wrong, you shouldnt have something which tells people what to believe and how to believe.
when i said i despise religion that didnt mean i despise religious people who only live day to day as normal people. its those in control who like government officials can do so much wrong in the name of something.
Your scrapping at the sides right now. you said they may have not killed in the name of atheism but they killed faithless is a major cop-out and a lot of split hairs. You said the same thing, so don't try and say i just went against the rules. maybe you shouldnt make generalizations so much, pretty low class right there.