themisfithitman

In 509 B.C.E. Junius Brutus overthrew the Tarquin monarchy, thus helping to form the Roman Republic that would lead Roman civilization to great power. The Senate ruled successfully over Rome for around 500 years (509 BCE- 14 CE), and it expanded Roman power and territory greatly.

Though the Roman civilization reached its greatest extent under the rule of Trajan, the Senate expanded Rome to a fair 3/4, give or take, of the greatest extent of the Roman Empire.

However, the Senate, in all its power, became corrupt, the men of the Senate taking bribes and speaking more and more for their gain, and not necessarily for the benefit of Rome. The Senate slowly became more and more corrupt and eventually, around 27 BCE, Julius Caesar and his troops crossed the Rubicon river, declaring war on the Senate because they ordered him to disband his army and return to Rome.

While Julius Caesar invading Rome was not entirely due to the corruption of the Senate, it greatly impacted the course of Roman history. Another time, this shift of power occurred, during the French Revolution, during the extensive turmoil of the French Revolution. The Directory (1795-1799), set up by the National Convention to end the Reign of Terror that Robespierre had spearheaded, set Napoleon Bonaparte as the leader of an army.

Napoleon crushed many revolts, and thus, gained much power. On November 9, 1799 Napoleon staged the coup of 18 Brumaire which installed the Consulate. This led to his dictatorship and, in 1804, Napoleon declared himself Empereur (emperor), bringing an end to the republican phase of the French Revolution.

Though the example of Napoleon is on a much shorter time scale, in a period of much greater political turmoil, the basic problem is the same. The government is corrupt, the military general, hailed as a hero by the vast majority, comes back, disbands the current government, and sets up one in which he rules supreme, (Julius Caesar did not exactly do this, Augustus was the first Emperor of Rome, but Julius Caesar set himself as dictator of Rome) and then constructed an empire out of what had once been a republic.

My thinking is, that, most republics eventually end up failing. Given this, I believe that the United States government will eventually fail. I believe that the American republic will suffer the same fate as the Roman republic. Not to an exact detail, but to the basic problem demonstrated through the examples of Julius Caesar and Napoleon Bonaparte. Remember that the Roman Republic was ruling for about 500 years, and the American republic has only been in power for some 300 years.

P.S. This is most likely some slight-to-moderately flawed information, as I wrote it all from memory
P.P.S. This is just a theory, its a thought I had that I wanted to share, and get feedback on

pelkgator

I think it is safe to say we will eventually "fall". This is true of every nation, empire, dynasty or other societal institution that has predated us. The thing that could prolong us, is the Constitution. If we start reversing this inertia towards stretching and abusing the constitution it will lose its respect and the branches will become more independent and start trying to grab more power than ever imagined. If we can manage though to give the constitution more power, then it can safeguard us.

themisfithitman

That's putting a lot of confidence in the constitution. The French Revolution saw three or four constitutions. Considering ours has lasted so long it is safe to say we can use it as a safeguard for now, but we cannot continue to have that be our sole safeguard.

My main point in this was that someone, I think, will eventually accumulate enough wealth to raise their own political faction, much like Julius Caesar did when he was granted supreme military access in Gaul, he gained a ridiculous amount of wealth and used it to build up his own political faction, and fund his army, which he then used to cross the Rubicon. Julius Caesar, through the amount of money he had was able to overthrow the Roman government, even though the Romans had a strong constitution, one that had held the Roman civilization together for around 500 years, something even our constitution hasn't managed yet.

Julius Caesar overthrew the Roman republic to make it an Empire, which, if you look between the lines, the USA has already established. Not through military conquests, but through convincing developing nations to borrow enormous amounts from the US, amounts the nations could never be able to pay back. After the US convinced nations to borrow these insanely large amounts, they simply either installed puppet governments, or governments they could have a large amount of influence in.

The USA has become the first truly global empire. Something that the British strived for, Napoleon dreamed of, and something Julius Caesar most likely couldn't even comprehend. Again, my main point was, one man with enough money could overthrow a government and make all that the nation had before his, and his to control. Napoleon did it, Julius Caesar did it, it may happen again to the USA.

Roycerson

After a little bit of confusion about he use of the word it....

I agree wholeheartedly in principle with the above quote if not in grammar.

Is it just me or did that throw anyone else?

kateri0080

When it comes to the rise and fall of countries, I really dont think history matters at all. Every country will fall sooner or later and new ones will be born. Its just part of the cycle. The only way History would matter is if someone is trying to predict when and how. Other than that, of course the United States will fall. My guess, is probably within the next fifty years, if not, everything will be different anyhows. It doesnt matter wheather we're republican or not. Our country is already failing. Sure there are stats that say how we're prospering, but averages rise with the rich. Our military is failing, our people are getting so unhealthy, studies show that we are getting shorter pateince because of tv (because of all the commercials, children are getting more sidetract and arent able to watch a full video), we're spending more time playing video games and not caring than paying attention to the economy, the United States is slowly but surely going downhill. I do not think the United States has become a global empire otherwise we wouldnt be in the situation with Iraq. The United States doesnt even pay the UN the most money anymore. Countries do not listen to us, otherwise we wouldnt be mad at Iran right now. The truth is, like I said before, of course we're going to fail, because we're already starting to fall.

Wheeldog

It is an interesting question. Will America fall? In part, it depends on what is meant by "fall." Virtually all empires (and we are an empire) go through a cycle of rising from humble beginnings, growing in power and then declining. The early periods are characterized by a sense of vigor and self-confidence, whle the latter period is usually one of self-indulgence and reluctance to face difficult challenges. There is also a resource component to empire rise and fall. Rising empires usually have a surplus of energy and raw materials needed to expand. In some cases, they acquire what they need by taking resources from others. Eventually, as essential resources (food, building material, water, fuel, etc.), the empire begins to shrink. When that happens, iinternal and external forces often hasten the breakdown.

From a historic perspective, the U.S. probably began declining in the 1960s, as we become increasingly disillusioned with our national government and wars that could not be won. The Kennedy assination, Viet Nam, Watergate, etc., etc. sapped our self confidence. We literally sold our industrial heritage and national pride for cheap toys, aimless lifestyles and sprawling suburbia. Insofar as political corruption, that is all-too-obvious. The war in Iraq has exposed our soft underbelly to groups that are eager to bring us down. Even if we can somehow pull out of this mess, it has seriously undermined our self image and our international standing. Perhaps the question should not be "if" we will go into decline but rather how severe the outcome will be.

Agrippina

There was more to Rome than just the fall. And there were more reasons for the fall than have been given here but I have been told off about expressing my personal opinions and I have been told off about a few other liberal thoughts that I have so having been censored, I will not make my comment except to say that what America can learn from the fall of the Roman Empire is not to get too big. The fact that you are a federation of of basically independent states, will work in your favor. If you were a united country with one legal system that applied across the board with one person in charge who dictated every single policy in every single town over your +300 million population then you would be in danger of breaking up, as happened to the British Empire. One emperor cannot govern for infinity over an area that the British Empire covered, that is what Rome tried to do but it became too big to manage, so it was split up under 2 or 3 emperors who each wanted to be the boss, that didn't work then there were other factors that came into play, leaving it open for allies and invaders to come in and break it up. I think you will survive but don't be surprised to see other similar societies developing in the rest of the world. You've set an excellent example that the rest of the world is copying i.e. the European Union, the proposed Union of African nations etc.

LessGovMrPrez

No we need to follow the Constitution. We dont anymore. If we get back to basics, we can save ourselves.

themisfithitman

One thing, the USA has become a global empire, though we never really openly stated it. In Panama, we have a puppet government, in many countries we have convinced to take on a massive amount of debt to us, we just excercised our influence over their political decisions. The example of Iraq is because 1. the people originally sent in to convince Iraq's government to take on the loans failed 2. the people sent in to take 'care' of Iraq's government also failed, thus 3. we sent in the military to gain control of the country.

The fact that, yes, the Roman decline was a combination of many factors, but, my point was that the American empire and the Roman empire both share the weakness that I stated. That's the Achilles' heel that I see in both.

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.--George Santayana

This is what I was trying to get at. If we can't learn from the mistakes of the Romans, or of the French Revolution, we're most likely going to have the same factors that ended them, end our empire.

Thank you! This is exactly what I was getting at, that we will eventually fall, because we are already demonstrating many of the factors of an empire in decline.

Agrippina

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.--George Santayana

Cicero said "to not learn from history is to remain forever a child.