Science vs. Scientism: Creation Science vs. Evolution - Page 5 - Political Forum

That Darn Republican · #41 (**permalink**) 10-15-2007, 11:52 AM

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Atheists worship nothing because they regard nothing as worthy of
worship.

Your faith is vested in your disbelief, am I not right? Man was created to put his faith in something... but sense the sensual is what appeals the most to atheists, that is the thing you worship. It's kinda hard to argue that.

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2. How is it BETTER to worship something you CAN'T prove or see,rather than something you can?? Surely it makes more sense to admire
things you can SEE?

Well, in being an atheist, you've answered that question -- next time you look on the mirror, there is your god... since you believe you:

- Control your own destiny
- Weren't created with a purpose

Secondly, why do you need to see God? what is important about physically seeing Him? Do you think that would make you change atheists behavior? No we'd all be deceived in thinking that. However, If you actually knew scripture you'd know why you can't see Him, but is that affirmation to you? - it abates the whole nature of faith if you could hop a plane and go visit. He resides in the hearts of those who are called according to His purpose. Ask any Christian how they lived before Christ entering their heart and being indwelt with the Holy Spirit [as the helper] and they [as well as people who knew the prior self] can attest to the change in their lives... it is very real.

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3. What is wrong with worshiping life? Life is great, except for the religious freaks that keep killing people.

No one has killed more humans on this earth than secular humanists, you got that all backward dear. Your disbelief is religion too... mind you. You put your faith in it. We were created to worship the Creator not the creation [Rom, 1:18-22]. Lastly, if you worship life - then you worship something, then you've sawed the legs off your own argement... but that's ok. Many do just that, in the end it is what it is - you want to live how you want to live, the way you want to live. But worshiping life rather than the Giver of life is not what God had in mind... to answer your question specifically.

emptypepsi · #42 (**permalink**) 10-15-2007, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Darn Republican

Your faith is vested in your disbelief, am I not right? Man was created to put his faith in something... but sense the sensual is what appeals the most to atheists, that is the thing you worship. It's kinda hard to argue that.

That makes no sense. Atheism is the lack of belief in a God, mono or polytheistic, etc. That does not equal "They worship something else instead". It simply means the lack of belief in a God. You are taking words and giving superfluous attachments to their definitions for your own convenience.

Slartibartfas · #43 (**permalink**) 10-15-2007, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Darn Republican

Well, in being an atheist, you've answered that question -- next time you look on the mirror, there is your god... since you believe you:

- Control your own destiny
- Weren't created with a purpose

Why does this conclude that an atheist would believe he is God himself? He has no god like powers just because he doesnt think that anything in the universe (or maybe beyond) has.

Actually being an atheist creates a heavy weight you have to shoulder. No religion tells you anymore what is good and what is bad, what you have to do and what not.

As atheist you suddenly have to take responsibility for even more than a religious person. You have to take responsability for your own morality and ethics that no one commanded to you but that you had to give to yourself.

No one tells you what your purpose of life is as an atheist, you have to find one yourself. And this does not mean at all you have to turn into an egomanic asshole that only warships himself. You can also dedicate your entire life for the benefit of the society or to improve the world and the lifes of the people living in it. Its after all your choice, either to lead a pittyful egoistic consumerist life or something that gives your life some sense. There is much that can give your life a sense, and religion is just one possibility out of many.

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Secondly, why do you need to see God? what is important about physically seeing Him?If you actually knew scripture you'd know why you can't see Him, but is that affirmation to you? - it abates the whole nature of faith if you could hop a plane and go visit. He resides in the hearts of those who are called according to His purpose. Ask any Christian how they lived before Christ entering their heart and being indwelt with the Holy Spirit [as the helper] and they [as well as people who knew the prior self] can attest to the change in their lives... it is very real.

I actually agree with you on this. At least according to the general concept of most religion, god can't be seen. And that for a good reason. Otherwise he could be described by the means of science (at least aspects of him). Thats in contradiction to the basis most or all religions base on. Religions are normally (or always?) outside of the realms of science.

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No one has killed more humans on this earth than secular humanists, you got that all backward dear.

I would be very careful with those remarks. People committed terrible acts in the name of religion and they committed terrible acts in the name of secularism. Its what people make out of religion and secularism, not religion and secularism themselves that causes wonderful, good, bad or terrible things.

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Your disbelief is religion too... mind you. You put your faith in it. We were created to worship the Creator not the creation [Rom, 1:18-22]. Lastly, if you worship life - then you worship something, then you've sawed the legs off your own argement... but that's ok. Many do just that, in the end it is what it is - you want to live how you want to live, the way you want to live. Bur worshipping life, That's what's wrong... to answer your question specifically.

Thats an argument why I may be actually more an agnostic than an atheist. I refuse to believe. That means I resort to rationality and logic in this regard. Religion or god can't be proven or disproven as its created in a way to prevent exactly that. Its outside of the realms of science so no one knows what is correct.
Having this in mind I think however that its more likely that humans created a religion with a god because they wanted to worship something than god creating humans who shall worship him. But thats just a guess, a matter of likeliness of a lot of rational factors.

I dont believe in a god, I dont "believe" there is no god either though. I know what I know and the rest I only can guess and think what is more likely. Thats all.

emptypepsi · #44 (**permalink**) 10-15-2007, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Darn Republican

Secondly, why do you need to see God? what is important about physically seeing Him? Do you think that would make you change atheists behavior? No we'd all be deceived in thinking that. However, If you actually knew scripture you'd know why you can't see Him, but is that affirmation to you? - it abates the whole nature of faith if you could hop a plane and go visit. He resides in the hearts of those who are called according to His purpose. Ask any Christian how they lived before Christ entering their heart and being indwelt with the Holy Spirit [as the helper] and they [as well as people who knew the prior self] can attest to the change in their lives... it is very real.

You basically say "Why do you need to see God? You wouldn't believe it anyway". That is not what I would consider the best way to advance a conversation. Respond to their question by totally dismissing their sides credibility in exploring it. So basically, because all atheists will obviously not believe anything they can't see, then maybe we should just discount them entirely, eh?

But, wait. Here, you say atheists are all about looking in the mirror and believing what they see.

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Well, in being an atheist, you've answered that question -- next time you look on the mirror, there is your god... since you believe you:

- Control your own destiny
- Weren't created with a purpose

Why would they discount something they can see? You already made the sweeping claim that they believe what they see. Why wouldn't they believe in a god after having seen one? I'm following your line of thinking here, nothing else.

That Darn Republican · #45 (**permalink**) 10-15-2007, 12:22 PM

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That makes no sense. Atheism is the lack of belief in a God, mono or polytheistic, etc. That does not equal "They worship something else instead". It simply means the lack of belief in a God.

It is not what you say... it is what you see. I see people [not saying you... but?] engage the sensual as their outleft for their beliefs. Their faith is that no one steps up and rains on their parade [beliefs]

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You are taking words and giving superfluous attachments to their definitions for your own convenience.

Is that what you do?

emptypepsi · #46 (**permalink**) 10-15-2007, 12:26 PM

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Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

Thats an argument why I may be actually more an agnostic than an atheist. I refuse to believe. That means I resort to rationality and logic in this regard. Religion or god can't be proven or disproven as its created in a way to prevent exactly that. Its outside of the realms of science so no one knows what is correct.
Having this in mind I think however that its more likely that humans created a religion with a god because they wanted to worship something than god creating humans who shall worship him. But thats just a guess, a matter of likeliness of a lot of rational factors.

I dont believe in a god, I dont "believe" there is no god either though. I know what I know and the rest I only can guess and think what is more likely. Thats all.

Agreed. I'm actually more agnostic in regards to a god than anything. God may or may not exist. In a way I'm betting if a god exists, it is more likely a peripheral than a personal situation. However, I don't feel anybody has every nailed it, whether it be religious, humanists, atheists, you name it.

That Darn Republican · #47 (**permalink**) 10-15-2007, 12:28 PM

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Why does this conclude that an atheist would believe he is God himself?

Slibartifas,

Part of the humanist mantra is self diesficationis it not.... ans that is evidenced by putting your faith in what you can achieve in your mind with no credit to your Creator. The statement was valid. As to powers... rem, they dont' believe.

emptypepsi · #48 (**permalink**) 10-15-2007, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Darn Republican

It is not what you say... it is what you see. I see people [not saying you... but?] engage the sensual as their outleft for their beliefs. Their faith is that no one steps up and rains on their parade [beliefs]

Is that what you do?

Having tools in life (senses, sensual or perceptual) does not equate to beliefs and/or a religion in and of itself (building your life off that perception). I use money and depend on it to accomplish things in life (paying for gas, getting my bills paid), but that does not mean I worship it. By the way, my other question still remains to be answered.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · #49 (**permalink**) 10-15-2007, 01:02 PM

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Originally Posted by Bradgriff

Darn Republican......you're pretty new here right? Welcome, good to have you.

You put together a nice passionate case. Every 2 or 3 months someone shows up with the same type of thing, and yours is in the more rational range however I stiil sense the usual manic urgency to prove a point, and that is crowding out the fertile area where an exchanges of ideas should be taking place.

The people on this site tend to be quite well read and reasonable for the most part, and we have been over the Science V Creation thing ad nausium. Maybe you've got some new stuff to bring to the table

that would be nifty.

But try to take a little time off of being right. You'll fit in better, and there will be receptive people and all that, you know

I have to disagree here. It's obvious that there are many posters on this thread who approach things from a secularist perspective. Sheer numbers do not make right, quality of one's argument makes right. If 100 people with low quality arguments disagree with one person with a quality argument, then the guy with the quality argument has still won the debate.

You should not tell someone to "take a little time off of being right" because that merely pre-supposes that you are right by the fact that there are more like-minded people with you in this one location. That proves nothing and it certainly does not prove that you are right and that anyone else is wrong.

I would also discourage people from piling onto one person who disagrees with them.

WEB

Oregon Elephant · #50 (**permalink**) 10-15-2007, 01:11 PM

Let's try to get bact to the debate regarding evolution, the whole Athieism issue is being discussed on another thread. I would love for this to get back on track considering that while I've been here this topic has not come up.