The Virtues of Space Exploration are they Helpful ?? - Page 3 - Political Forum

Oregon Elephant · #21 (**permalink**) 10-16-2007, 05:18 PM

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Originally Posted by themisfithitman

I definitely agree, our planet is wonderful, but it is not infinite.

This would also be amazing, its just the cost of the construction of such a structure would be quite large, though, like many renewable resources, it would most likely be just an up-front cost.

It would also need a large power source to maintain the spining (they had these in the anime show Gundam), solar panels would probably work best, being that they never need to be refueled.

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This is an extremely, considering we can spend so much on arms and armies, undertake-able task. We could definitely, with some genetic modification on the plants, be able to plant organics on Mars. The Mirror Plan would be extremely expensive, but how about a solar power plant or something as such, or, if nobody cares about emitting a ton of CO2 into the Martian atmosphere, then we could just set up one of the most environmentally inefficient power plants that is available to us to help give the planet an atmosphere, and the plants CO2. Not coming from a scientist, but that idea sounds like the beginning of a possible plan for making Mars habitable.

It's not that there isn't enough CO2 (there's tons of it in the polar caps), the planet's mass is too small to sustain a deceint atmosphere, most the CO2 that you pump out will escape into space. That is the same problem with O2, it is even lighter than CO2, and it will escape at an even faster rate, so the planet, will most likely never be able to sustain life without life support facilities.

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True, domes would definitely make the planets slightly habitable. As far as Mars goes, who said we couldn't do a larger scale biosphere experiment, with occasional resupply missions from Earth, the prospect of living in domes on Mars is quite visible. We already have the technology available to get to Mars, the only problem in the foreseeable future is that we need a way to get building materials to Mars and find a way to get back from Mars. This may bring on a new round of the highly dangerous Apollo missions of the 60's and 70's, but if it , as it should, brings us the capability to sustain life on Mars, then so be it. I personally, and I believe many others agree, believe that many would be willing to take on another series of missions like the Apollo missions in order to help further and prolong the human race.

The research and mining capabilities of the domes would allow initial construction of living quarters for the initial colonists, but, over time, they could add more and more living areas, and attempt to start terraforming projects. The research being performed on the I.S.S. could be mimicked on Mars to see the planet's effects on people. The major problem I see is that at present times it would be hard to pack enough fuel to make it both to and back from Mars.

We could send robots to perform the initial construction of the first living habitats for colonists. They could construct a farming dome, which would be large, but sustainable, and a hotel-like structure that would serve as living quarters. Though the Martian nights are much colder than here on Earth, there could be certain building elements that were the most insulating and fire-resistant that are available.

After the first bout of robot construction, then we could send actual human beings to do more precise building. They could live in the initial structures built by the robots while they make better structures for more people and better methods of greening their areas. An area could be constructed as a forest, which could be used to help produce oxygen and foods. Another area as a farming area, where protein-rich foods could be grown. Of course, a well-balanced diet would have to be grown on Mars, but we can do it on Earth, we just have to adapt it for Mars!

True, but I don't see how Mars can support enough humans (have enough biospheres denoted to farming and living) to be anything more than scientific and mining (that is if there is anything worth mining on Mars). You wouldn't be able to have more than a few thousand people in a biosphere community, and you wouldn't be able to have hundreds upon hundreds of these communities.

themisfithitman · #22 (**permalink**) 10-16-2007, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregon Elephant

It would also need a large power source to maintain the spining (they had these in the anime show Gundam), solar panels would probably work best, being that they never need to be refueled.

It's not that there isn't enough CO2 (there's tons of it in the polar caps), the planet's mass is too small to sustain a deceint atmosphere, most the CO2 that you pump out will escape into space. That is the same problem with O2, it is even lighter than CO2, and it will escape at an even faster rate, so the planet, will most likely never be able to sustain life without life support facilities.

True, but I don't see how Mars can support enough humans (have enough biospheres denoted to farming and living) to be anything more than scientific and mining (that is if there is anything worth mining on Mars). You wouldn't be able to have more than a few thousand people in a biosphere community, and you wouldn't be able to have hundreds upon hundreds of these communities.

True as that is, the ability to know how to construct and maintain life on a not-so hospitable planet would be an invaluable piece of knowledge to have on our journey to either extraterrestrial, or even outside of the solar system, colonization.

The ability to have Mars act as a 'pit stop', so to speak, for space ships on their way to explore the solar system. I never said it was a perfect idea, I simply stated that it could be the beginning of something bigger than many of the plans going on now.

Oregon Elephant · #23 (**permalink**) 10-16-2007, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themisfithitman

True as that is, the ability to know how to construct and maintain life on a not-so hospitable planet would be an invaluable piece of knowledge to have on our journey to either extraterrestrial, or even outside of the solar system, colonization.

The ability to have Mars act as a 'pit stop', so to speak, for space ships on their way to explore the solar system. I never said it was a perfect idea, I simply stated that it could be the beginning of something bigger than many of the plans going on now.

That's true, it is the next step to real space travel. And it will become a reality in the not to distant future.

themisfithitman · #24 (**permalink**) 10-17-2007, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregon Elephant

That's true, it is the next step to real space travel. And it will become a reality in the not to distant future.

It is the next great stepping stone on mankind's path to the stars. To be prophetic sounding. Mars has great potential for teaching humans about adapting to live outside of the protection of our home planet. It is most definitely the next step to real space travel, the trips to the I.S.S. don't exactly count as space travel. They're more like extremely high altitude flights.

Not to change the topic, but:

What do you think about using solar sails to aid us in space travel?
I think that, considering the Cosmos 1 project, which sadly failed, due to launch equipment failure, we have the technology to allow for solar sail propulsion. There are predictions that, if measured and manipulated correctly, solar sail driven spacecraft could reach a significant fraction of light speed.

Oregon Elephant · #25 (**permalink**) 10-17-2007, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themisfithitman

It is the next great stepping stone on mankind's path to the stars. To be prophetic sounding. Mars has great potential for teaching humans about adapting to live outside of the protection of our home planet. It is most definitely the next step to real space travel, the trips to the I.S.S. don't exactly count as space travel. They're more like extremely high altitude flights.

Not to change the topic, but:

What do you think about using solar sails to aid us in space travel?
I think that, considering the Cosmos 1 project, which sadly failed, due to launch equipment failure, we have the technology to allow for solar sail propulsion. There are predictions that, if measured and manipulated correctly, solar sail driven spacecraft could reach a significant fraction of light speed.

I think that they are great ways and the most effient way to send probs to other solar systems, but even so it will take around 20 years before it can reach the nearest solar system and even then, the info that we receive from it will be four years old when it appears on our screens.

themisfithitman · #26 (**permalink**) 10-17-2007, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregon Elephant

I think that they are great ways and the most effient way to send probs to other solar systems, but even so it will take around 20 years before it can reach the nearest solar system and even then, the info that we receive from it will be four years old when it appears on our screens.

This is true, but the option of solar sails is so fuel-conserving that the bulk of fuel used on a trip from the earth to mars would be the initial launches. The ships could then be powered by solar sail to their destination. Its a wonderful concept that has an enormous amount of potential.

However, there are other methods of propulsion that have yet to be tested and better understood to be used in practice.

NASA - Emerging Possibilities for Space Propulsion Breakthroughs

This is an interesting article written by someone for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (of the USA) that briefly (or possibly not so briefly) discusses some up-and-coming space propulsion possibilities. What I believe is that we need to learn how to reduce the amount of fuel needed to get from point A to point B. Doing so will allow us to increase payloads, decrease fuel consumption, and allow missions to be both less costly and more profitable.

Oregon Elephant · #27 (**permalink**) 10-17-2007, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themisfithitman

This is true, but the option of solar sails is so fuel-conserving that the bulk of fuel used on a trip from the earth to mars would be the initial launches. The ships could then be powered by solar sail to their destination. Its a wonderful concept that has an enormous amount of potential.

However, there are other methods of propulsion that have yet to be tested and better understood to be used in practice.

NASA - Emerging Possibilities for Space Propulsion Breakthroughs

This is an interesting article written by someone for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (of the USA) that briefly (or possibly not so briefly) discusses some up-and-coming space propulsion possibilities. What I believe is that we need to learn how to reduce the amount of fuel needed to get from point A to point B. Doing so will allow us to increase payloads, decrease fuel consumption, and allow missions to be both less costly and more profitable.

The best way to minimize the fuel used, is to minimize the number of trips to the surface of a planet. If you had two stations, one around earth and one around mars, a large transport-type ship could very efficently travel between the two, and lighter smaller ships (that are very fuel effeicent with traveling through atmosphere and against gravity). The larger ship can't waste room trying to be areodynamic or that will greatly limit the amount it can carry to and from mars (in space, it can be any size and any shape).

Another form of fuel for the deep space stuff (like out past Saturn and to the Kepler belt) would be nuclear explosion into a sail. That one is still working out some kinks though.

themisfithitman · #28 (**permalink**) 10-18-2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregon Elephant

The best way to minimize the fuel used, is to minimize the number of trips to the surface of a planet. If you had two stations, one around earth and one around mars, a large transport-type ship could very efficently travel between the two, and lighter smaller ships (that are very fuel effeicent with traveling through atmosphere and against gravity). The larger ship can't waste room trying to be areodynamic or that will greatly limit the amount it can carry to and from mars (in space, it can be any size and any shape).

Another form of fuel for the deep space stuff (like out past Saturn and to the Kepler belt) would be nuclear explosion into a sail. That one is still working out some kinks though.

The idea of a larger between-station transport ship, and smaller surface-to-station ships is a very efficient way to boost cargo capacity and minimize fuel consumption. If a ship has no need to be aerodynamic, then it'll be able to carry much more cargo. But, there will also be the issue of finite materials on Earth, assuming that the ships, stations and fuels will all be put together with materials from Earth, which would prove to be very costly in terms of money and depleting resources.

As far as the nuclear-explosions-into-sails plan, I believe that is an amazing idea, especially provided that the amount of fuel needed is very, very little. The kinks always need to be ironed out before anything can officially be declared a working method of transportation.

P.S. Did you mean the Kuiper belt?

Oregon Elephant · #29 (**permalink**) 10-18-2007, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themisfithitman

The idea of a larger between-station transport ship, and smaller surface-to-station ships is a very efficient way to boost cargo capacity and minimize fuel consumption. If a ship has no need to be aerodynamic, then it'll be able to carry much more cargo. But, there will also be the issue of finite materials on Earth, assuming that the ships, stations and fuels will all be put together with materials from Earth, which would prove to be very costly in terms of money and depleting resources.

As far as the nuclear-explosions-into-sails plan, I believe that is an amazing idea, especially provided that the amount of fuel needed is very, very little. The kinks always need to be ironed out before anything can officially be declared a working method of transportation.

P.S. Did you mean the Kuiper belt?

Yeah, the Kuiper belt and Oort cloud (my mind must have been thinking of the Astronomer, Kepler). Those both need to be extensively study (preferably up close) before we can leave this solar system and explore others.

themisfithitman · #30 (**permalink**) 10-18-2007, 06:10 PM

Ok, good, I thought that was what you meant but wasn't really sure.

Yep, I agree, we do need to study both the Kuiper belt and the Oort Cloud before we can progress much further from the sun.

What about the moons of other planets in the solar system that have shown signs of geologic activity, or even hints towards the existence of water, such as on Pluto's moon, Charon? Or Uranus' moon Miranda?

While it is really impractical to try to colonize these celestial bodies, it is interesting to see, and know, that we aren't the only thing orbiting the sun to have water on it.