According to this ABC news report, the new Boeing 787 has a number of revolutionary new features, including that it is made mostly of plastic composites making it easier to maintain and less efficient. Although the plane has not even entered service with any carriers, it is already sold out till 2015. This is in contrast to Airbus' new large jet which may be having cost issues due to the rise in oil prices.

Yahoo! News Search Results for boeing's new 787 'Dreamliner'

(video in center)

__________________
Formerly W.E.B. Du Bois (you can still call me "WEB")

Current Diplomacy thread
WEB Music Playlist
Protest Animal Cruelty

Dont judge too fast.

Do you have any source for the "A380 down" part? I mean everyone knows that Airbus experiences problems currently, like Boeing did only a few years ago. But which article suggests that the A380 is going to be a complete failure?

Ever read about the history of the Jumbo Jet? Boeing nearly went bankrupt or at least was thrown into considerable turmoil before the Jumbo transformed itself into a cash cow...

As soon as the new dreamliner has succeeded in all the tests needed for license I might join you in your cheer for it. Until then I see how they did in using entirely new materials in such a number in a plane without risking stability, costs upsoaring etc.


PS:
One important question how much more fuel efficient per seat is the Dreamliner suggested to be in regard to an A380 per seat? (standard configuration). And last but not least, I want to see those Boeing claims tested as they certainly will be in the soon future. Than a serious comparision is possible.

__________________
"Every country gets the cuisine it deserves"

I mistakenly wrote that the left video is the video I wanted to show. I meant the center one. I was in a rush yesterday.

It briefly mentions the airbus. I would just point out the 20% savings in fuel consumption mentioned in the videos, due to lighter materials, and the rise in fuel prices which gives Boeing the competitive edge over Airbus.


WEB

__________________
Formerly W.E.B. Du Bois (you can still call me "WEB")

Current Diplomacy thread
WEB Music Playlist
Protest Animal Cruelty

Boeing Versus Airbus - Forbes.com

__________________
Formerly W.E.B. Du Bois (you can still call me "WEB")

Current Diplomacy thread
WEB Music Playlist
Protest Animal Cruelty

Those 20% are in comparision to Boeings own old models as far as I got it from the other video. The A380 also uses composite materials but to a far lesser extend thats right. And exactly thats what I am eager to see. Is Boeing ready to handle such a huge step in technology or will the problems just start, with production problems and unexpected cost explosions? A first problem already appeared where some bubbles were in an important composite part so they had to reorganize everything in order to not postpone the tests. If further problems should appear they might not prevent posponement anymore.

But thats of course speculation. If Boeing succeeds in really keeping itself on time track, getting all tests successfully done, and in the end proving that its 20% less consumption to its own models remain true. I will show my honest respect towards their engineering abilities. (And also of its countless subcontractors from all over the world)

__________________
"Every country gets the cuisine it deserves"

Its ridiculous to compare numbers of A380's and 787's. I can also compare apple and pies. Put it into dollars that is not perfect either, but will certainly get the whole thing into perspective.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that airlines dont buy as many jumbos as midsized in numbers. Its not that the Jumbo anytime in history was at risk to outnumber midsized planes.

__________________
"Every country gets the cuisine it deserves"

Well, if you look at the whole Forbes article, it says that the greatest increase in demand will be among mid-sized aircraft, and not massive aircraft like the Airbus. People want to FLY MORE and get closer to their home. That means more aircraft are needed to fly to different locations.

Also, let's take into account costs and interenational sales. Where do we expect foreign sales to come from? China, India, and maybe Japan. I don't know about Japan, but do you see relatively poor countries like China and India buying the 787 or the Airbus?

That being said, I will agree that your previous counterargument about apples vs oranges was an effective argument against my previous argument, but other factors (which I just mentioned) could make them comparable. Also, I see no reason to believe that Boeing's composite materials will cause them any problems. That is not a leap in technology by the standards of the United States.


WEB

__________________
Formerly W.E.B. Du Bois (you can still call me "WEB")

Current Diplomacy thread
WEB Music Playlist
Protest Animal Cruelty

Only time will prove that. Also the Jumbo jet was not seen as cash cow in the beginning.

I know this argument above. But you might also know the argument that speaks for the A380. Its very convincing as well. The airports are already today at the limits of starts and landings... Show me how you bring this together with more and more people flying in same sized planes or even smaller ones as now.

They probably wait until its a reliable and prooved tool. Or especially China until it copied the plans and build it itself.

You can't tell me you can compare a 250 seat plane to a 500 seat plane in terms of sale numbers 1 to 1.

Well the composite materials caused a hell of a lot problems at airbus. That made them switching back to a higher grade of traditional materials.
Perhaps the technology has progressed in the meanwhile to a really reliable grade. But I dont think Airbuss technicians are stupid idiots. Thats why I do not exclude the possibility that the composite material might make problems (it does not have to but chances are intact).

__________________
"Every country gets the cuisine it deserves"

On this, I agree with you. One has to watch and see.

That's an interesting argument. Airports are not too hard to build though, IMO. I've been to many a small airport. Also, I've heard that the size of the Airbus means that many airports are not capable of accommodating a plane of that size.

China has been building its own medium airliner for sometime, or at least trying to build it jointly with Brazil. It's a lot smaller than the 787. China actually deliberately buys the 787 to reduce its trade surplus with the US.

Agreed.

Boeing has built the world's most famous passenger aircraft: the 747, 777, 767 and 737. I highly doubt that Boeing will make a major design error.


WEB

__________________
Formerly W.E.B. Du Bois (you can still call me "WEB")

Current Diplomacy thread
WEB Music Playlist
Protest Animal Cruelty

Indeed, thats also what serious observers say.

I dont know how its in the US but in Europe already expanding an existing airport is like hell for the responsibles, not to start about creating new ones.

But apart from this, also the airspace is limited in its capacity. And especially in densly populated regions it could get critical if the plane number keep rising.

You can not increase the planes lets say over the UK unendlessly.
I am not talking about a major error. I am talking about continuing little problems that sum up. Like its often the case with making something new. And you can tell me what you like but using composite materials in such large civilian airplanes is a really large step forward. I dont know, perhaps Boeing has experience from large military planes but I doubt they are built with so much composite material either. As I have said, there has been already a problem with a composite part that has to be replaced now which caused the need to produce two parts at the same time in order to prevent delyays. If problems like this should reoccur they will come to a point where delays won't be preventable anymore. Many ifs indeed, but not impossible.

PS:
Boeing might have built the most famous ones, but until now Airbus built the most progressive ones. Ask a pilot of your choice. With the dreamliner Boeing might succeed in catching up though.
But one advantage of Airbus remains: If you know how to fly one Airbus you know how to fly all of them principally. I am not sure this is the case for all the Boeings.

__________________
"Every country gets the cuisine it deserves"