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Old 05-19-2007, 08:59 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Work For Russian Fifth Generation Fighter Have Stalled because no money

The Fighters Have Stalled

Work on the fifth generation engine for Russian combat airplanes has been frozen because of an absence of money

Work on the fifth generation engine for combat airplanes has ceased, Top management of the NPO Saturn company, which leads the alliance of plants involved in the project, is announcing. The engineers argue their decision is a lack of financing – the defense ministry still has not signed a contract with the association of engine builders. A VZGLYAD newspaper source in aircraft construction is convinced that the funds for the creation of the airplane with a new engine will be found.

“Work on the fifth generation engine for combat airplanes has been frozen,” they declared to the VZGLYAD newspaper at NPO Saturn, “and it will be resumed only after the defense ministry signs a corresponding contract.” According to the developers, they need “financial and administrative support to create equipment on time.” They refused to specify the amount of funds at Saturn, referring to the information’s secrecy. And they did not disclose at the NPO even the confirmed periods for creation of the fifth generation engine. The participants of the cooperation emphasized only that “without defense ministry support, the creation of the future engine is impossible, and we are counting on the wisdom of state policy.”

The lead scientific research institute of aviation industry economics expert, Oleg Panteleev, accuses “bureaucratic red tape” in the realization of the state program. “Most likely, it is one of the reasons for the recent retirement of air force commander-in-chief Vladimir Mikhaylov,” Mr. Panteleev supposes.

Work on the firth generation engine for the future aviation complex of tactical aviation (PAK FA) began in December 2006. One kilogram of engine weight creates 10 kilograms of thrust in the fifth generation engine. Temperature in front of the turbine is supposed to be stoichiometric – over ((ZA)) 2,000 degrees Kelvin. From the economic point of view, the engine is supposed to be cheaper than a fourth cycle ((sic)) engine. Moreover, it is supposed to have high ((BOL’SHAYA)) non-afterburning thrust, because one of the main criteria of a fifth generation airplane is supersonic cruise, and it is supposed to be invulnerable to air defense forces.

NPO Saturn had been able to receive money for the development of production also from a strategic investor. At the end of 2006, the enterprise’s top management held discussions with a number of American companies. Later, the joint stock financing company ((AFK)) Sistema became interested in engine construction. The Vladimir Evtushenkov concern undertook the formation of the Perm’ Engine Building Center. AFK bought Perm’ Motors. The investors decided to incorporate the Ufa Motor Building Production Association and NPO Saturn with it. According to unofficial information, Rosoboronehksport appeared as a customer for the integration of the engine building assets.

An information campaign began around the production association. The general director and largest stockholder of the enterprise, Yuriy Lastochik, had to convince investors that he had not sold his holdings. “NPO Saturn does not need any kind of intermediaries in relations with the state,” it says in a company report distributed in February.

A VZGLYAD newspaper source in aircraft construction is convinced that “we nonetheless will make the airplane – with new armament and engine.” The source declared under conditions of anonymity that the funds for creation of the flight vehicle will be found. “The program for creation of the airplane is on schedule,” he emphasized.

The source looks at the possibility of attracting a foreign strategic investor in NPO Saturn stock with irony: The engine will have, most likely, a narrow application – for a definite sector of domestic combat airplanes. This means Russian companies will be trading in them. An investor, while investing money, will want to find out when the funds will be recaptured, and demands a sales plan be demonstrated. But this is impossible because the information itself is a state secret.”

Another VZGLYAD source, acquainted with the allocation of forces in the industry, is convinced that NPO Saturn’s difficulties are not connected with any intrigues around the engine building holding companies. “Rosoboronehksport would hardly take such a step. It is pointless to cut off financing of the most important state program for pressuring Saturn,” the source is convinced.

Source: 17.05.07, Vzglyad, Correspondent: Georgiy Voronkov, Petr Kanaev
Russian Aviation News Items
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Old 05-19-2007, 09:06 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Good

Im glad that the program was frozen I don't trust putin. Just looking at him sends a chill through my spine. He just radiates evil. which isn't too difficult to imagine since he was the director of the KGB before the Soviet Union collapsed. I wouldn't be surprised if he was trying to turn Russia back into a totalitarian state. Not necessarily communist, the econemy can't afford it. but a dictatorship no less.
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Old 05-19-2007, 09:42 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Great thread, PE. I love these kinds.

I wonder why Russia bothers to design new engines for PAK-FA. They've got some new upgraded engines that go in the latest upgraded flankers. They should use those to save cash. That's what the Chinese plan to do, I believe. China also has a plan for stealth fighters, which I think use the engines to the flanker.


PAK-FA (concept)



Chinese stealth (concept)


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Old 05-19-2007, 09:45 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Oh my bad, they are going for supercruise (non-after-burning Mach 1-2), that's why they are going for such a powerful engine.

In any case, Russia has a lot of oil revenues, so they should be able to afford research into this, now that I think about it.


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Old 05-19-2007, 10:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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To be honest their engine tech requires something like the supercruise at least for fuel saving while preserving the power, those big fighters with high fuel consumption with afterburners could only get very low ranges or flight times. Strategically, their squadrons should have more fighters for maintaining air power as replacing the refueling fighters.

I am sure they would be able to afford someday, but projects are lagging behind means they are loosing power

BTW, another interesting news : Russia made a %50 price increase on engine exports to China. This means they are favoring India against China openly.
China has a lot of concepts on the paper , also I have a friend with some computer skills and he can draw planes like that In real world China is still operating MI-17s
J-10 is still under development (They are trying to turn it to a twin engine model, if they would be serious about 5th generation fighters they wouldn't dare to do that) , FC-1 even can not match an F-16. (I have suspicious if J-10 can match it)
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Old 05-23-2007, 06:49 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Russia has been exploiting the military sales sanctions on China for years. If you compare the prices that the Chinese pay for Su-27/30 they are paying significantly more than India and getting less in return. The Chinese now that.

Well, it won't last much longer. China has made great progress in copying all Russian equipment that goes into the Su-27. The airframe itself, phased array radar, the missiles and the engine. I have heard that mass production of the J-10 with the Chinese engine will begin maybe even this year.


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