There would be on serious consequence if/when the US pulls out:

Iraqi self-determination.

Only those that oppose the Iraqi people determining their own government want the US to remain in Iraq.

Gee, I think the Iraqi people have already spoken. Were you on vacation at the time?



CNN.com - Sporadic violence doesn't deter Iraqi voters - Jan 31, 2005

The Iraqi people have already said what they want. Now the Iraqi leaders have to do their part to honor the decisions of the people. The only ones who are trying to stop the process are the insurgents and the Islamists. And they surely don't want us to remain.

The Iraqi Constitution was predominately dictated by the US and the Iraqi People were not given a choice. It was "Vote for this or vote for nothing" and that is not self-determination.

The elected leaders of Iraq were predominately hand picked by the US and a major political party (the Baath Party) in Iraq was denied any involvement whatsoever in the elections. If you deny the representation of a large segment of the People in an election then it is not self-determination.

Where were you when all of this was going on?

Well no President is going to pull out of Iraq, Democrat or Republican.

They have all been asked point blank on this question, and not 1 of them have said they would do so.

Very true. Even the Democrats only talk about combat troops, and those make up barely half of what you have in Iraq atm if my memory doesn't fail me.

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This I agree with. No President will leave Iraq in the short-term – it’s partisan fear mongering to suggest a Democrat President would evem entertain the idea.

While I would agree with looking at drawing down troops for the simple reason that I don't feel the current levels are sustainable, a complete and wholesale withdrawal would be irresponsible.

I agree with you to a certain extent.

I think we can comfortably conclude that ANYTIME anyone discusses the matter of a troop pull out or reduction in Iraq without discussing the REASON we are there or considering the progress there in terms of the Iraqis being able to adequately defend themselves, then their opinions should be considered irresponsible or even pro-Islamist.

That goes for posters as well as would-be presidents.

Short term or long term isn't the point. The protection of a new Democracy is the point.

When the US gave the Iraqi leaders the guidance needed to create a Constitution it was with the implicit understanding that they were assuring the Iraqi people that we would not turn our backs on them and that this way they were going was going to be the least problematic for them in the long run.

Remember, to the victor go the spoils. That is the rule of war that the Muslim armies throughout time have obeyed. Well, we aren't making Iraq ours. We aren't capturing and making it part of a supposed Empire as we indeed have the right to do.

We are merely guiding them in a way which assures they will have the best chance for success.



Giving a new student of music the tools and rules to follow rather than allowing them to flounder and learn from years of trial and error is the only way to responsibly help the student to one day become a virtuoso.

If I was president of the United States here is what I would do about the middle east:
I would address the entire middle-east through the Al Jazeera network with the following (paraphrased) message:

a. We've proven that we can kick your ass and turn your country upside down.

b. We have the most advanced weaponry and the best nuclear bombs in the world.

c. We're going to bring our troops home, close our bases and embassies, and peacefully co-exist as trading partners.

d. But know this: If you ever mess with us, we're going to bomb all of your holy sites just for fun and let you be pissed about it for a week or so, then we're going to wipe your asses off the map. We're not going to have diplomatic discussions, we're not going to send in troops, we're not even going to let you know we know who you are. We're just going to push the big red button and that will be that. We don't care about your religion, your cause, or how many innocents will be harmed in the process. Enough is enough - you leave us alone, we'll leave you alone. You mess with us, we'll turn your whole region into an ash tray. If you have a problem with that, you better start policing your own and let them know we're serious.

Zig Hiel.

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"Of course the fact that a person believes in racial equality doesn't prove that he's a communist...but it certainly makes you look twice, doesn't it? You can't get away from the fact that racial equality is part of the communist line." - Joseph McCarthy

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