Human Evolution: Not finished? - Political Forum

emptypepsi · 10-13-2006, 03:38 PM

Around four billion years ago, living creatures were nothing more than biochemical machines merely capable of self-reproduction. In a mere fraction of this time, humans evolved from creatures like Australopithecines. Today humans have wandered the Moon and have studied ideas ranging from general relativity to quantum cosmology. Once space travel begins in earnest our descendents will leave the confinement of Earth. Who knows into what beings we will evolve? Who knows what machines we will create? These creatures might survive virtually forever, and our ideas, hopes, and dreams carried with them.

Do you think that humans have other steps to make in the evolutionary step-ladder? I personally think we do, though many feel we are the zenith and that we are making ourselves virtually extinction-proof by bending Earth's flora and fauna to our will.

Otter · 10-13-2006, 04:57 PM

I wouldn't characterize us as 'extinction proof', just because we're currently at the top of the food chain.
Evolution is not static- it's happening as we type, the timeframe is just so much longer than anything we are set up to grasp. It's also not a ladder- it's just..change. Usually adapation to a changing environment. The irony being that we have changed our environmnet so much, so quickly, that we are no longer well adapted to it. Who would have guessed that descendants of the furtive little proto-mammals that snuck in at night to steal dinosaur eggs would one day rise to prominence? Who can say what organisms will come after us, or even if they will be our descendants? Life goes on, either way. I might better put my money on the ants.

Ygorl · 10-13-2006, 06:13 PM

Interesting stuff. I was going to write an instruction manual for extraterrestrials and how they should handle or not handle (stay away and avoid) interacting with other beings on other planets in other systems.

I know that seems off topic but it isn't. I abandoned the writing as I became unmotivated, uninterested or bored with it. Would have fit in well here though.

What would happen if some other beings came and introduced themselves to us ? Do you think they WOULD at this point ?

CHUQ · 10-14-2006, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thane

Interesting stuff. I was going to write an instruction manual for extraterrestrials and how they should handle or not handle (stay away and avoid) interacting with other beings on other planets in other systems.

I know that seems off topic but it isn't. I abandoned the writing as I became unmotivated, uninterested or bored with it. Would have fit in well here though.

What would happen if some other beings came and introduced themselves to us ? Do you think they WOULD at this point ?

NO, would you travel a million light years to come to aplanet that lets people starve, babies left in dumpsters, children killing children or would you just flush your ships toilet and move on?

Slartibartfas · 10-14-2006, 11:02 AM

Of course evolution does not stop just because we as such important everything overshining individuals entered the world.

Evolution will continue as long as there exists life as we know it. but to be honest, it plays a really small role for us when speaking about humans. Because unless we want to breeding programs which is a terrible thought indeed, the time frame of evolution is of such dimensions that we dont have to care much about it.

Cultural evolution has taken in the place of biological evolution when it comes to humans. Simply because it works much faster. Cultural achievements have caused within a few thousand years to evolve from stone age to what we are today. Evolution cant hold up that speed, although it is work in progress nonetheless.

In fact if the speed of cultural evolution keeps that speed, I see it soon coming that we will botch ourselves in our genetical informations. Perhaps there will be considerable backstrokes taking place, but over the long I dont believe humanity can resist it. Thats however something I would be really frightened of, and I try to find the comfort in the hope that it does take still longer than I live until science is as far as to be able to do so effectively.

This all could go of course as far as human-similiar things in future "planning" evolution, ie to invent genes and organic constructs on their own. While the the rules of evolution would not be abolished it could add unpredictable dynamic to it.

Scruff · 10-14-2006, 02:06 PM

Slartibartfas has a good point in that the time frame is one that is so large as to be irrelevant. It is much more likely we'll become extinct than make some noticable physical change or mutation most associate with evolution.

My main argument as far as the stoppage of the evolution of humans is that evolution is entirely handled by natural selection. That is, creatures better adapted to the environment will survive longer and procreate more. However, humans have gained the ability to adapt the environment, and such adapting to the environment is no longer necessary to overcome the hazards of natural selection.

Coyote Says · 10-14-2006, 08:24 PM

If we don't get killed by climate change or asteroids or nuclear war or the thousand other things that seem bent on snuffing us out, I think we'll eventually branch out and colonize the moon and beyond. If we leave and settle other planets, there would be further evolution. Maybe we would go out and terraform several worlds and evolve until we were no longer recognizable. Maybe that's how we got here.

Otter · 10-14-2006, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scruff

Slartibartfas has a good point in that the time frame is one that is so large as to be irrelevant. It is much more likely we'll become extinct than make some noticable physical change or mutation most associate with evolution.

My main argument as far as the stoppage of the evolution of humans is that evolution is entirely handled by natural selection. That is, creatures better adapted to the environment will survive longer and procreate more. However, humans have gained the ability to adapt the environment, and such adapting to the environment is no longer necessary to overcome the hazards of natural selection.

It's a thought, but just because we have altered our environment doesn't mean that it has lost the pawer to shape us. The only two requirements for natural selection to act are 1) heritible differences (variation) within the population, and 2) differential survival or reproduction. We still have both of these things- some people are more sucessful than others. The biggest difference is that we are competing more with each other than against a hostile environment (climate, preaditors, whatever), and the requirements to do well have less to do with physical strength and speed, and more to do with intelligence, and having what it takes to function in a rapidly changing, overstimulating society. And, folks manage to off themselved in specaculalry stupid ways all the time- just check out the Darwin awards.

Scruff · 10-15-2006, 02:41 AM

The thing is, we aren't evolving into a more intelligent species. In my mind, the problem solving ability (or intelligence if you will, because after all that is what intelligence actually is) to create the wheel is comparable to that of creating the code for this forum. I feel this is due to #2. Though certainly some people are more successful than others, often due to intelligence, this does not equate the same increased survival or reproduction it used to. I'd say most people have 1-3 children and live into their 70s or 80s. Standard of living is high enough that there isn't a drastic seperation even between the wealthiest 1% and the lower 50% because the human race seems prone to succumbing to terminal or compounding illness after a certain point.

Slartibartfas · 10-15-2006, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scruff

My main argument as far as the stoppage of the evolution of humans is that evolution is entirely handled by natural selection. That is, creatures better adapted to the environment will survive longer and procreate more. However, humans have gained the ability to adapt the environment, and such adapting to the environment is no longer necessary to overcome the hazards of natural selection.

Scruff. I dont think evolution is stopped. Natural selection continues, i disagree with you on that. But the real new thing is that unlike everything seen in the past, the natural selection has become deeply dependant on the cultural evolution. People are still selected, but its not so much about survive or not survive anymore, those who have the ability to get rich are prefered choices at the "partner market", just to name one of the many factors.

Evolution continues as it allways does, just the factors of influence changed, perhaps like they allways do...